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To think that the Corona virus is a sharp reminder of why vaccinations are so important

109 replies

Mummypigisalwaysright · 29/02/2020 06:45

All these people in quarantine with suspected Corona virus shows exactly the lengths we'd have to go to if something like measles or mumps started doing the rounds again.

Quarantine used to be standard for things like mumps, measles, diphtheria. My nan today told me the harrowing story of when she had to be quarantined in hospital at two years old for two months because she'd been exposed to diphtheria. She had forgotten how to talk when she came out. I recently re-read a childhood favourite, the twins at st Clare's, and in one book the twins were quarantined as they had played tennis with a child who had come down with mumps. It used to be a common occurrence and was really the only way to prevent the spread of the disease.

My generation (early 30s) and the few generations before me have never really had to deal with things like quarantines because vaccinations have mostly eradicated the disease's that plagued our older generations childhood's.

Would our society cope, would our NHS cope ,with so many more vulnerable people who could really be very ill should these illnesses come back? Would workplaces cope with parents off work if they had a child that had just come into contact with measles they then had to quarantine?

It's a very sobering thought that we take for granted these diseases have mostly been eradicated due to the pain and experience and research of our past generations.

OP posts:
Jollitwiglet · 01/03/2020 23:33

My sil won't vaccinate her children because Dr Google says vaccines are bad and doesn't want 'unnecessary medical procedures'. Yet she was happy for her children to be circumcised for cultural reasons.

Mind you this is the same woman that thought cake was sugar free if you didn't eat the icing.

BusterMove · 01/03/2020 23:42

OwlBeThere because we have herd immunity to those diseases (for now- rates are creeping up). If nobody was vaccinated, the death rates for measles etc would be quite a bit higher.

1Morewineplease · 01/03/2020 23:45

I feel like I’m missing the point here.. there is currently no vaccine against Coronavirus. There is only a flu vaccine against certain flu viruses. Influenzas evolve , as does the vaccine. Which is why vulnerable people have to take an annual vaccine as the vaccine varies every year. It’s not like measles, polio, tetanus , diphtheria etc... where one ( plus booster) fits all.
Whether you a pro vaccinator or anti vaccinator is irrelevant. Coronavirus will strike whoever it chooses until it either gets beaten by a new vaccine or it dies out naturally.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 01/03/2020 23:48

What has this virus got to do with vaccines? This has mystified new. There is no vaccine yet for this virus.

I don’t agree with the flu vaccine for kids. It seems fairly ineffective and a morally reprehensible way of trying to reduce flu in older people who can choose to be vaccinated anyway. And we don’t know what vaccinating kids nasally every year does after ten years. And no I’m not a scientist. And no I’m not generally anti vax. But neither do I blindly follow the official line either

OwlBeThere · 02/03/2020 00:03

@BusterMove nothing to do with herd immunity or vaccines, those are the death rates before vaccination.

Aridane · 02/03/2020 01:47

What has this virus got to do with vaccines?

Coronavirus is a reminder of the way old killer diseases ran rampant through the popultpre vaccination

Aridane · 02/03/2020 01:47

(through the population pre vaccination)

Aridane · 02/03/2020 01:49

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Do you realise was a killer seasonal flu is? and how deaths from garden variety flu DWARF current deaths from coronavirus?

knowmenclature · 02/03/2020 01:57

Ive had measles, mumps, german measles, chicken pox, scarlet fever, god knows what else!

Same for my siblings. I know many who've had the vaccines and also got these, you read them on here a lot.

I have a very immunocompromised dc who I want to have protection but apparently cant??? How the 🦆 does this work?

knowmenclature · 02/03/2020 02:00

Aridane

Where are you getting your figures from please, can you show us some evidence as i thought flu death were around 0.01% and covid19 been as high as 9% where theres poor medical response, but even with good response still 10 times higher than flu, with a far higher spread rate at 3-4

Aridane · 02/03/2020 02:43

Figures from CDC and WHO.

Per WHO, as of 1st March, deaths from covid 19 < 3,000 globally (situation report no 41).

Per CDC, as of 22nd February , the CDC report estimated deaths from flu in the US alone - for the period from 1st October 2019 - 22nd February 2020 to be between 18,000 (lowest estimate) - 46,000.

To put it in further context

To provide perspective here are some statistics:

  • Between 291,000 and 646,000 people die every year from
seasonal influenza-related respiratory illness according to Centers for Disease Control.
  • 3 to 5 million cases of severe influenza occur worldwide each year according to WHO.

Hope this helps

Aridane · 02/03/2020 02:45

So real figures rather than hypothetical projections

knowmenclature · 02/03/2020 02:50

Some differences are important here.

We have no vaccine for covid19
We have no tested and established medical treatment for it.
Its spread rate exceeds that of flu.

You are not comparing like for like.

The US has only just started getting infected.

The spread rate is far greater than flu, and the cfr is higher.

Just because there are not the high numbers yet to compare against there are infection and death rates.

China did not shut down for nothing, and hasn't done this for flu.

Aridane · 02/03/2020 03:02

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands dead from flu

knowmenclature · 02/03/2020 03:12

Sorry? Thats a bit extreme don't you think.

Didn't you like the answer. What a vile reaction to me presenting you with some current data.

I am not here to try to convince you, and flu is a massive killer, but its potential is less than covid19 is currently showing us it's capable of, and we have no vaccine or way of treating it. Its novel, less known, less certainty, higher risk of severe illness, permanent damage and death.

Wish it wasn't, but it has a greater potential for serious harm and fatality. The long incubation period means a very slow rate initially, and it spreads whilst people are incubating it and symptomless for maybe 2 weeks, then you start to see incidence rates, which increase exponentially the suddenly its doubling every day.

knowmenclature · 02/03/2020 03:25

Coronavirus is a reminder of the way old killer diseases ran rampant through the popultpre vaccination

The virus has nothing to do with the argument for vaccination against childhood illnesses.

Its not like measles, we don't have a vaccine developed.

Is this just arguing for arguing's sake?

Its a novel way of having yet another vacc/anti vacc thread is all it seems.

alexdgr8 · 02/03/2020 03:33

for those saying the corona is no worse than seasonal flu, just look at it logically, leaving aside any specialist knowledge /figures.
can you not see that uk hospitals struggle during winter, at 100% + capacity.
so imagine another flu2 infection, added to that situation; its not instead of, its in addition to the regular flu.
how would the hospitals cope. there is no spare capacity.
uk has not speedily erected extra hospitals with directed labour.
because we dont do that sort of thing. we are a free society.
now further imagine that this extra flu2, is even more infectious than the regular one, has no vaccine/specific treatment.

head of the BMA said on sunday he had only heard of the govt's idea to bring in retired doctors that very morning, on the radio. no consultation, no planning. and there are many issues which would have to be addressed, what kind of work, registration lapsed, insurance cover, physical fitness. the latter point even more so for nurses. but we live in a free society, so we'll muddle through, i guess.

NotALurker2 · 02/03/2020 04:43

YUBU. People used to stay home when they were sick. If you want to call watching TV in bed and eating chicken soup and toast as "self-isolating" then go ahead, but for most people that was the extent of measles, mumps, chicken pox -- the normal childhood illnesses that most people got, stayed inside for a week, then got well again. Why would you refer those illnesses as if they were the same as small pox or polio? It's ridiculous, not to mention has nothing at all to do with the current situation (other than fear mongering).

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 02/03/2020 06:14

What’s is your point Aridane? Firstly there isn’t a vaccine for this coronavirus. And I even if there was I would not give it to my kids to prevent the spread if it to older people as I don’t agree, as mentioned, with this.

And back to the flu vaccine. We don’t currently vaccinate the middle sector of the population against flu so the herd immunity issue isn’t relevant. Each year, the vaccine is retrospectively assessed for efficacy and in children, those figures aren’t great. There are to my knowledge zero studies being done on the subtle changes in the innate immune system from yearly vaccination. But as an owner of dogs, for many years, it is well versed that yearly vaccination of dogs isn’t beneficial for health ans even leads to increased autoimmunity and cancer. Which of course is disputed by vets but the studies aren’t being done.

So yeah, I’m a cautious vaxxer and am amused to see the spread of a virus for which there is no vaccine, being used as another excuse for a vaccine thread.

countrygirl99 · 02/03/2020 07:38

Notalurker I was at a small village primary school in the 1960s. There were 3 children in the school who had been permanently damaged by vaccine preventable diseases. 1 was deaf from her mother getting rubella while pregnant, the other 2 were damaged by measles - 1 had very poor eyesight and 1 had SEN due to brain damage.
My cousin had his polio jab delayed because he had a cold. He caught polio and had to use a leg caliper for the rest of his life, he died in his 50s of post polio syndrome. Another cousin couldn't have children because of mumps. A friends mum had a withered arm due to polio - it used to be very common, she also died in her 50s of post polio syndrome.

My mum taught reception. After there was a concern about the whooping cough jab and vax rates plummeted they had an outbreak and virtually all the non vaccinated child in the school got it early one term (hardly any vaxxed ones did). Several children in the school missed the rest of the term and 2 in my mums class were left with permanent lung damage.

ChanklyBore · 02/03/2020 09:14

Firstly, I am very pro-vaccine and my children are fully immunised. But I don’t understand the timeline. I myself am 34 and had chicken pox aged 2, measles aged 4, mumps aged 6 and rubella aged 9.

I can fully remember the day they brought the ‘new’ MMR vaccine into school when I was 10. There were posters with red spots on and we all had it done in the school hall, half of which was kitted out with soft mats like a soft play area for the day and kids were laid out in it if they felt funny. We got a card covered in red spots that said “I’ve had the MMR!” and the date on it afterward which I kept in a folder for several years with other school stuff, so I saw the date repeatedly and know when it was done.

I’m not sure how that fits in with the timelines of ‘oh we were all vaccinated so dont remember kids with the disease’. I do, and I’m not old.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/03/2020 09:55

MMR was adopted by the NHS in 1988, so you would have been in the catchup program I think, ChankleyBore. There were separate vaccs before then but I'm not sure what the coverage was or when each became available in the U.K. either privately or via NHS programs. I had the rubella vac as a teen, in the mid 70s - they just did girls, it wasn't to protect us.

Gilead · 02/03/2020 13:03

It's not racism to say visitors are bringing in some illnesses to this country. In fact it shows a lack of knowledge of history to say they aren't.
Nope, sorry, there is no peer reviewed evidence to support your theory, and yet there is plenty to support the theory that it’s due to a lack of uptake across the board.
My lack of knowledge regarding history is a tad worrying though, given my PhD in History...

Barbararara · 02/03/2020 13:24

My parents were the original anti-vaxxers and I had measles, whooping cough, chicken pox as a child and German measles as an adult.
I didn’t hesitate to vaccinate mine.

LolaSmiles · 02/03/2020 13:29

*The virus has nothing to do with the argument for vaccination against childhood illnesses."
Its not like measles, we don't have a vaccine developed.
Is this just arguing for arguing's sake?
Its a novel way of having yet another vacc/anti vacc thread is all it seems
The OP hasn't suggested it there is a vaccine.
They're pointing out our current reaction to an illness that we can't prevent and saying "doesn't this highlight how vulnerable we are to diseases that we haven't got vaccines for" in an era where too many people think reading some stuff on Facebook counts as doing their research and we lost of our Measles free status as a country.