Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Covid 19 Thread for HCPs (& PH specialists, Epidemiologists, research scientists etc)

76 replies

EgonSpengler2020 · 15/02/2020 21:58

I have been following and occasionally commenting on both the AIBU and Prepping Coronavirus threads (under a different user name), but thought I would try to start a thread for HCPs and other professionals who will be on the frontline if this does turn into a Pandemic.

I'd like to keep it as evidence based as possible, so links to peer reviewed studies, or try to make a little note if it looks like the link you are posting has yet to be peer reviewed as things are moving super fast.

I also hope it can be a place for peer to peer support if/when the shit hits the fan.

For non HCPs/health science professionals, your're welcome along, but please try not to derail the thread or turn it into an AMA.

I'm a Paramedic by the way.

OP posts:
alreadytaken · 21/02/2020 10:17

The coronavirus is being brought under control in China and so far has not spread to any extent outside hina except to one cruise ship with laax infection control. Please consider your responsibilties when writing on this thread as the "worried well" are more of a threat to the NHS than the virus! www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/20/health-centre-coronavirus-information-help

wheresmymojo · 21/02/2020 14:43

@alreadytaken

With respect, that is factually incorrect. There are local epidemics know in South Korea, Japan and Iran.

wheresmymojo · 21/02/2020 14:47

*now not know

alreadytaken · 21/02/2020 19:48

It was true until the latest reports came in. There has been a recent increase in cases in South Korea thanks to the Shincheonji sect. Japan's population is about 127 million and it now has about 90 cases apart from the cruise ship patients. It didnt quarantine the ship well. Iran is worrying because no-one will get accurate information from them.

None of this excuses speading panic about the position in Britain.

wheresmymojo · 21/02/2020 20:37

Who is spreading panic?

wheresmymojo · 21/02/2020 20:38

It was already the case yesterday before you wrote your post by the way...

OhYouBadBadKitten · 21/02/2020 20:59

I was really hoping that this thread would be one where I could quietly learn from frontline professionals about their reality and perspective when dealing with this virus and it's consequences. I also respect the idea that they need a space to offload and share experiences.

Being honest about the impact on themselves and their locale is not causing panic. We don't live in a totalitarian regime where people need to keep their mouths shut.

eeeyoresmiles · 21/02/2020 23:21

I'm not a health professional but I thought this article by an expert in risk communication might be of interest to people who are:

“Fear Is Spreading Faster than SARS” – And So It Should!

From the article (which was written in 2003 when SARS was a growing risk) (underlining mine):

The first half of our title was the headline of a recent New York Times article on SARS. The second half is a risk communication lesson that most health officials and many journalists have been slow to learn. It isn’t only about SARS. Regardless of the hazard, fear is a tool, not just a problem. The purpose of fear is to motivate precautions – that is, self-protective behaviors that diminish the risk of bad outcomes. To be useful, then, the fear has to outrun the thing that is feared; fear that lags behind its object is useless. Yet somehow the public is being told that it is wrong, irrational, panicky, or hysterical to be fearful of SARS just yet.

Public anxiety can lead to genuine panic or to astonishing resilience. The paradox is that efforts to squelch the anxiety (“allay the public’s fear” is the usual phrase) can actually induce the panic it aims to prevent. Resilience is likelier when authorities ally with the anxiety, harness it, and steer it instead of trying to prevent it. Of course even superb handling of the public’s fears may not prevent panic if the epidemic gets bad enough. There has often been some panic during the great epidemics of the past. But panic will be likelier and more widespread if the authorities have been minimizing the risk than if they have been acknowledging it candidly and compassionately.

The article is a long but interesting read. The basic argument is that a certain amount of fear is appropriate, and attempts to reassure people that there's nothing to worry about until it's certain things will get bad, are positively unhelpful. They prevent people from getting gradually ready to take the necessary precautions, and they cause more panic in the long run.

Again from the article:

One of the lessons the SARS epidemic has taught us, or retaught us, is that a few sick people who are insufficiently concerned (or insufficiently screened) can wreak havoc.

I think health professionals who are in the front line of this need the public to be well prepared to do what they need to to reduce the spread of coronavirus and to look after themselves. And that means it's potentially dangerous just to keep reassuring people that there's nothing to worry about, right up until we're really sure things are definitely going to be bad. It means it's better to acknowledge that there is a storm on the horizon, so ordinary people can get used to that idea and get ready for it, even though there's still a small chance the storm will turn away.

BatSegundo · 22/02/2020 11:11

Thank you for that very interesting article, Eeyore. I'm now musing on how I might be able to use it at work (not HCP but public sector/ frontline)

Jenasaurus · 23/02/2020 21:09

I work for an Ambulance Trust, not front line but work closely with the paramedics, can I join this thread please

squid4 · 23/02/2020 21:34

acute med doctor here.
Watching and waiting.
We certainly have no excess capacity for anything whatsoever. A few cases ID will cope with fine. But a pandemic? A&E has been running at 150-200% capacity since november already. ITU are struggling for beds horribly.

Cinammoncake · 23/02/2020 22:00

Good idea for a thread and very informative, thanks OP

everythingthelighttouches · 24/02/2020 08:29

I work in medical research and though many years postdoc, I am not a medic, although I work closely with many. I hope you don’t mind me joining.

Has anyone noticed the significant change in tone this morning in the UK national media?

It seems we are moving away from containment to mitigation phases.

What impact do you expect this to have on social behaviour e. g 111 calls, A&E visits? And do you notice a change in the advice being given to frontline medics this week?

I don’t expect much to change in my field, we have been putting together research proposals on COVID19 for UK rapid response funding calls, assessing Category 4 lab capacity for a few weeks. But I am not public-facing.

Bunnyfuller · 24/02/2020 10:59

@everythingthelighttouches

That’s very interesting, this came up on my Twitterfeed last night:

twitter.com/kakape/status/1231628955242958849

It is saying we’ve gone beyond containment and the focus needs to change, as well as giving more public awareness than ‘wash your hands’

stairway · 24/02/2020 11:21

Following this thread as a hospital nurse, not much information/ guidance for HCPs at my hospital yet.

Newdadtogirl · 24/02/2020 11:23

I'm a Public Sector frontline worker, I catch everything first from everyone! Interested in information, as none available from my employers.

Goodnightandgoodluck · 24/02/2020 16:42

Nc for this, but as someone who has recently been involved in caring for a severely ill patient who was being tested for Covid-19, I was appalled by the behaviour of some of my colleagues to PPE. Fit-tested masks pulled off to speak, touching faces, no eye protection, not always using gloves when touching bed linen etc etc. Yes, this patient was thought to be relatively low-risk of actually having the disease, but sooner or later someone is going to have the disease unexpectedly. I have zero confidence of the virus being contained in that situation now.

MedSchoolRat · 25/02/2020 18:54

Epicurve from today's WHO situation report. Seems like sustained decline in new cases by date of symptom onset.

Covid 19 Thread for HCPs (& PH specialists, Epidemiologists, research scientists etc)
MedSchoolRat · 25/02/2020 20:04

ps: MERS & SARS-1 epicurves for comparison, based on date of symptom onset.

SARS-COV-2 curve is preliminary, will change and get bigger & stretch out, but still at least it's not obviously growing.

Covid 19 Thread for HCPs (& PH specialists, Epidemiologists, research scientists etc)
Covid 19 Thread for HCPs (& PH specialists, Epidemiologists, research scientists etc)
everythingthelighttouches · 25/02/2020 23:40

I think In 4-6 weeks from now this could be a biphasic graph.

What is particularly worrying about the covid19 graph is that the second half of it are cases acquired in the reporting country. i.e. Local spread which is independent ofChina.

In the next two weeks, we may also now see an increase in purple bars, which are cases that are reported in one country but came from another which is not China.

Like today cases exported from Italy and Iran in Europe and the Middle East, respectively.

toddlerisfun · 26/02/2020 03:57

Not a health professional but educator. WHO published online courses for health workers on Coronavirus.
[[https://mobile.twitter.com/WHO
World Health Organization (WHO)]]O)*_

@WHO
·
8h

WHO published an online course for #healthworkers and public health professionals, which provides information on what health facilities should do to manage a case of #coronavirus.

WHO Situation Report 25 February 2020

http://bit.ly/3caTPmS

MyFavouriteColourIsBlue · 26/02/2020 12:32

NC to join here. Work in an NHS outpatient clinic and have a degree in public health so this outbreak both fascinated and scares me. I don’t think the nhs has the capacity to cope with a large scale outbreak here. As PP has said, hospitals are already under strain with a bad flu season and the government/PHE aren’t giving enough guidance and information. I find the stuff coming from PHE/chief medical officer contradictory and confusing. Nobody seems to have a plan or can agree on who should self isolate or not. If Johnson uses the NHS not coping with this as a political tool to privatise the NHS...(cynic)

EgonSpengler2020 · 28/02/2020 21:02

Article on the impact of the avaliablity of health care resources on mortality.

www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(20)30068-1/fulltext

"data show clear disparities in mortality rates between Wuhan (>3%), different regions of Hubei (about 2·9% on average), and across the other provinces of China (about 0·7% on average)"

Shows the importance of delaying the spread as much as possible.

OP posts:
EgonSpengler2020 · 29/02/2020 20:56

pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/ryct.2020200034

Imaging Profile of the COVID-19 Infection: Radiologic Findings and Literature Review

Interesting article about lung changes even in patients with minimal symptoms

OP posts:
GloriaMumsnet · 09/03/2020 09:17

Hi @EgonSpengler2020, what a brilliant thread idea! Hope you don't mind, we've moved it over to our Coronavirus topic!