Thoughts on Israeli elections?

[mids2019]

https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/israels-election-and-eisenkots-arab-coalition-dilemma/

With a very complicated Islraeli election about to take place there is some possibility that a new Israeli prime minister may have to form sort of coalition with Arab parties to form a government.

It will be interesting to see how all those that have the Israeli government in the anti Israel community will react to a government which may include those of Arab hertiage. Will the pro Palsstinains continue to hate the Israeli government or simply he Jews in part of it?

It’s a sad fact that war makes people more extreme. Palestinians and Israelis are more polarised than ever.
The victims of October 7 were the more moderate Israelis ( festival goers/ kibbutzim) . Hamas attacked the moderates because they wanted to exacerbate the division and hatred.
Netanyahu and the settlers will have radicalised the moderate Palestinians in a similar way.
How sad it all is.

An unintended consequence of 7/10/23.

Sad and disappointing but you can see why it happened.

That's right Ophelia.

The two sides more polarised than before and a solution to it all seems further away than ever.

It may well have contributed. Netanyahu’s predecessor still thinks very differently. I heard a radio interview with him.

There is a limit to what Palestinians can be blamed for, though. They aren’t responsible for their current hideous plight. I’m still genuinely shocked that a people who suffered genocide could eventually initiate it themselves.

Oh I’m not blaming ordinary Palestinians for 7/10/23.

Only Hamas & their supporters.

I’m glad you aren’t . Thank you. So many supporters of Israel like to say that everything is the fault of Hamas, when it’s plain that all of the excess butchery is caused by Israel. This includes the endless killing of children, old people and innocent people on the street. It includes the horrors that are unfolding in the West Bank. Civilians are being killed in many thousands. It includes doctors, and no, I don’t believe they are Hamas. Also, they’ve excluded anyone from Israel who can contradict them, so I think it’s difficult to believe a lot of what is said.

Nobody should ever condone what happened Israel that October, but enough revenge should by now have been had, for any civilised nation.

No all the excess butchery is not caused by the IDF. A lot of it is caused by Hamas.

I don't think those on the pro Israel side tend to say "everything is the fault of Hamas". More than it's important to acknowledge blame on both sides and not act as if Hamas don't exist or shouldn't be held accountable.

Hamas actions on 7/10/23 - as well as unleashing hell on the Palestinians as well as Israelis - have also contributed to a right wing shift amongst young Israeli voters so that's long term damage to any hope of a two state solution.

Has the country not yet been held accountable? It’s been reduced to rubble, nearly 80, 000 are dead, and Israel controls almost everything, even food and money. The hospitals are all blown up? It’s led to war across the Middke East, and even in the UK, we are all paying. What more can Israel possibly want?

I’m talking about you and others holding Hamas accountable. The people who leave them out of the narrative.

It’s not “the country” we’re talking about, it’s not Palestinians, it’s Hamas when pro Israelis say we need to recognise blame on both sides.

What do you mean by accountable in practice @Twiglets1

I think that Hamas have and should be held accountable by the international community and by Israel. Hamas has terrorist designation and international restrictions. There are Sanctions and restrictions on funding. Israel has killed Hamas leaders and targeted Hamas's infrastructure. The ICC had a warrant for the leader actions on Oct 7th before he was killed.

what accountability would you like to see? Israel has also, slowly, seen the international community hold them accountable for their actions in Gaza. Unfortunately because they are protected by the US, it has less impact and they have continued their actions.

I would like all the people who criticise the Israel government and army to equally criticise Hamas, not to leave them out of the narrative as I observe then doing over and over again on Mumsnet, for example.

I would like people marching & protesting to hold up as many banners against Hamas as they do against Israel. And not parrot slogans claimed by Hamas like From the River to the Sea.

I don’t do those things and I do think Hamas were wrong. I’ve said it often, so please don’t point fingers. Now, practically everyone wants this to stop. Internationally.

Hamas they can’t be used as an excuse for this to go on and on and on. They must have been weakened and have lost their power base. The Guardian says that most people in Palestine are too preoccupied with finding food and water (and often even basic shelter, still) to care about politics. It’s hard to discern what the end game is.

Sorry, I was trying to quote@Twiglets1 , not @mids2019.

@Gealach asked me what accountability I would like to see and I’ve answered them.

The most recent polls published last Friday indicate that it’s neck & neck between the governing coalition and the main opposition block.

“Relatively new to politics with a working class Moroccan background, Eisenkot is a former military chief of staff who is renowned for his calm manner and low drama approach. He has been dubbed by some as a non - politician.

But he and his centrist Yashar party have regularly pipped Netanyahu and his Likud party to the top spot in recent polls …”

Source: BBC.

Why are young Israelis not swinging "left" and supporting "popular" causes?

Duh, because they all serve in the army and they and their friends are being shot at and killed, of course. It does rather focus the mind when the people the liberal left wing all support are actively trying to kill you.

If anyone needs any other stupid questions answered, or help with tying their shoe laces, wiping their snotty noses or fastening their bibs, I'm happy to help.

It would be good to see the religious extremists in the current coalition removed from power, as Ophelia said.

In terms of international concerns however, no opposition leader is committed to the idea of full Palestinian statehood. Eisenkot, for example, has spoken about creating the conditions for “autonomy or state minus” under ultimate Israeli security control. He has also pledged to end Hamas rule of Gaza within 18 months, either through a US- led peace plan or through “military and operational capabilities”.

All the main opposition leaders have voiced support for some form of Israeli settlement in the occupied West Bank.

Source: BBC.

Hamas attacked the moderates because they wanted to exacerbate the division and hatred.

Don't be silly. Hamas attacked the first Jews they came across. They didn't stop to ask anyone's political affiliations, and they really don't care. "Let's leave this guy and his wife and kids alive - he's right wing, as are his children, so there's no point killing them" said nobody, ever. The only good Jew in Hamas eyes is a dead one.

I don’t know @ThreeDeafMice .
I don’t think wanting peace is naive or childish.
Innocent civilians have suffered on both sides.
“An eye for an eye means the whole world becomes blind” and all that.

Because Israelis seem to support the actions of the state. And they have served in the IDF and seen what they do yet support then. So there is a great deal of culpability spread right across Israel society. Only when Israel as a whole recognizes that it has carried out abhorrent war crimes can it start to make reparations and rebuild a better society. Like post Apartheid Truth and Reconciliaton Commission in South Africa. I see no signs at all that the general populace are any where near that yet. Still stuck on shouting at the people that rightfully protesting their war crimes as being anti Semitic. I have faith that all such regimes have to face the truth at some point.

Not all Israelis support the state. Though it is understandable that Defence and Security are a major concern, especially after 7/10/23. What happened that day has caused a shift to the right amongst young voters.

Would you say that all the people living in Gaza support their government (Hamas) and therefore are culpable? That sounds wrong to me. Both that they all support the government (though lots appear to) and that Palestinian civilians should collectively be blamed for wars their government perpetuates.

“Still stuck on shouting at the people that rightfully protesting their war crimes as being anti Semitic. “
There has been a great deal of antisemitism in the protests -particularly in the early days of the conflict when there were Israeli women and children hostages held in Gaza.
The anti semitism has massively undermined the integrity of the protests. Antisemitism is not just what you say - it’s often what you don’t say. The lack of condemnation of Hamas by pro pal protesters in the immediate aftermath of October 7th was telling.

Positions have hardened in both sides.
I think the antisemitism of pro Palestinians protesters has potentially increased the support for Netanyahu.
( Look at the Green vote -Zionism is racism . It denies Israel a right to a homeland. )

Agree with this.

I would not have objected to peaceful protests against the Israel government as a result of some of their actions in the Gaza war, for example after they withheld humanitarian aid.

What I do find abhorrent is when those with an agenda used the Gaza war protests as an excuse to give their inherent antisemitism free rein or as an excuse for violence.

Yes that unfortunately is true that positions have hardened on both sides.