Rising anti swmtism in the UK....do we really need to crack down I n the Iran regime Hamas supporting mobs?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyxxjgdn94o

It is now being increasingly reported that there are multiple threats against Jews in this country as a result of wars in the middle east. How do we go about defusing tensions? Should the police take a more active role? Should we look at social media more closely for stirring up hate? Maybe we should be educating children more about anti semttism in schools as well as importantly saying the right of Israel to exist as a state. The tide needs to turn.

All of the above @mids2019

The rise of antisemitism in the UK is very sad and against British values, as is any form of racism.

From the article you linked to:

Across England and Wales, police recorded 10,065 religiously motivated hate crimes for the year ending March 2025, according to the latest Home Office figures.

The Muslim community was the most targeted group with 4,478 cases - including a spike in Islamophobic hate crimes following the Southport knife attack.

However Jewish people, with a much smaller population, experienced more than eight times as many hate-crime incidents per head of population as Muslims.

It feels like we are awaiting more terrible news of attacks on the Jewish community and we shouldn't be passive in our approach. The problem as I see it (and predicted) is that this is a long term problem that could become a terrible cultural norm. I know in schools tik tok videos are routinely shared espousing jew hate and so even at an early age we seem to be fostering anti semtic views as a norm.

One thing that has to change imho is the excuse of 'but Gaza' as it is now should be clear to people the extent of the hostility of Iran and its proxies towards the state of Israel.

Antisemitism in the UK shouldn’t be tolerated at all.

However strongly individuals may feel about the Gaza war, Jewish people living in the UK are not the IDF. To attack or intimidate them for things they didn’t do is disgusting.

Religiously motivated hate crimes are really always just an excuse for racists and bullies to do what they enjoy doing.

Antisemitism in the UK shouldn’t be tolerated at all. Agreed. There is no place for any hate crime in the U.K.
However strongly individuals may feel about the Gaza war, Jewish people living in the UK are not the IDF. To attack or intimidate them for things they didn’t do is disgusting. This is where i begin to disagree. There are lots of Jewish people living in the UK who go and serve in the IDF then return to the U.K. However to attack or intimidate people is disgusting.
Religiously motivated hate crimes are really always just an excuse for racists and bullies to do what they enjoy doing. Agreed - the only thing I would say is that there are lots of hate crimes that are not recorded as hate crimes. E.g in the mid 00’s when I had a brick thrown at my window by a group of young lads. When I went to look at what had just happened, they shouted 'Pki' (I’m not) but it wasn’t a hate crime as the verbal insult came after the action.*

I honestly find it hard to understand how anyone can disagree with the statement that To attack or intimidate them for things they didn’t do is disgusting.

Are there really "lots" of Jewish people living in the UK who go and serve in the IDF then return to the U.K? That sounds unlikely to me so I would want to see official figures before accepting that this is true. Within Israel of course, most young people do join the IDF at some point, that is because it is the law that they must do so (compulsory national service apart from for Haradi Jews until very recently).

Re your point that hate crimes often go unrecorded as such, I am sure that is true. But that will apply to people from all religious/ethnic groups including Jewish people so I'm not sure how it is relevant. Hate crimes are under reported generally, yes I agree.

Hi @Twiglets1i think you misunderstood - I agree that attacking or intimidating is disgusting and said so.

The only aspect of the previous posters comment I disagreed with was the part about people in the U.K having no part to play in the IDF.

Thank you for the source. "Lots" is subjective so I wanted to see the actual numbers.

A Freedom of Information request obtained by Declassified UK found that 1,686 British-Israelis and 383 people with British, Israeli and another nationality were serving in the IDF as of March 2025.

In 2024, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) said: “The UK recognises the right of British nationals with more than one nationality to serve in the legitimately recognised armed forces of their additional nationalities. We are aware of reports of UK citizens travelling to fight for the Israel Defence Force (IDF), but the Government does not estimate the numbers of those who have done so.”

I think it is understandable that some Jewish people with dual nationality were driven to go to join the IDF to defend Israel after the horrors of 7/10/23. Whatever you or anyone else thinks of the IDF, they are a legitimate army in the eyes of the Foreign Office.

And the vast majority of Jewish people in the UK of course did not join the IDF. Attacking or intimidating Jewish people is disgusting, best just to leave it at that in my opinion.

www.standard.co.uk/news/2-000-uk-nationals-served-in-idf-during-gaza-war-b1270741.html

I don’t see that there’s anything anyone can do about this. The article doesn’t even attempt to identify where it’s coming from or who’s doing it. There’s some vague mention of war in the Middle East so we can hope that stops I suppose, but Britain’s not involved so we can’t actually do anything about it.

Just one of those things. Hopefully it goes away.

If it doesn't 'go away' do we tolerate a time in attacks on Jewish people in the UK. We cannot just ignore attacks in this country, hatred doesn't belong here and shouldn't be tolerated.

Maybe we should be educating children more about anti semttism in schools as well as importantly saying the right of Israel to exist as a state.

I'm not sure that educating children on things that aren't true would be the right thing to do? No countries have 'a right to exist' and exceptionalising Israel(isn't that antisemitism in itself?) and pretending that there is some special right that pertains to Israel isn't the way to go here. You could teach children that everyone has the right to self determination and about the prohibition of territorial conquest and annexation under international law though. Sticking to facts rather than made up propaganda talking points is probably more suited to Western education systems.

Children could be taught that Israel is a legitimate state so has as much right to exist as other legitimate states.

As are Palestine and Iran

Palestine is more complicated. The BBC describe it as a state that does and does not exist ... due to the Palestinians' long-running dispute with Israel, it has no internationally agreed boundaries, no capital and no army.

Given its status as a kind of quasi-state, recognition is inevitably somewhat symbolic. It will represent a strong moral and political statement but change little on the ground.

But the symbolism is strong. As the former UK foreign secretary David Lammy pointed out during a speech at the UN in July: "Britain bears a special burden of responsibility to support the two-state solution."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp5z1vvj5o

You're right. And There arent even 'lots of' Jewish people in the UK never mind lots that join the IDF. Its a tiny community. Noone holds soldiers of any other country responsible for policies of their government that they disagree with. Its just another form of antisemitism, holding ordinary Jews collectively responsible for the politics of the Israeli government.

Who is exceptionalising Israel? Self determination is a recognised right.

Of course they can be taught that Israel is a country but there is no such thing under international law as the right for a state to exist whether it is Israel or Spain or wherever. It isn't a thing. No country has 'the right to exist' that's just a made up talking point that people use when talking about Israel. Legal frameworks focus on the right of peoples to self-determination and the prohibition of territorial conquest. Sticking to facts when teaching children should be the bare minimum really.

Yes self determination is a right that people have like I said, that could be taught. A countries 'right to exist' isn't a right, so teaching it would be pretty stupid.

In the 1930s my German born Jewish mother experienced exactly what British Jews are now facing. So, no, it's definitely not 'just one of those things' when no fewer than four London synagogues have been attacked in the past week alone.

No other minority in Britain, whatever their ethnicity, race or religion, is having to put up with what the Jewish community is having to do here and now. No other community (and I include Muslims) have to guard their places of worship, their schools, businesses and community centres as British Jews have to do.

Surely you can see that rampant Jew hate has now become normalised in Britain @Sskka?

@SunnyAfternoonToday Sorry, that was black humour. For my part I am beyond furious at how that article describes antisemitism like it’s bad weather or something – not a mention of who’s doing these attacks, for example. This is almost entirely an imported problem and we are simply not being honest about it.

Interesting. Just Israel? Do you feel the same way about Wales, Scotland, Ireland?

Sorry, I should have realised but I have a sense of humour bypass where antisemitism is concerned!

To quote myself earlier in this thread Of course they can be taught that Israel is a country but there is no such thing under international law as the right for a state to exist whether it is Israel or Spain or wherever.

And it isn't a 'feeling' that I have. It's just the way it is, no country has a right to exist. It gets confusing because so many people have had it drilled into them that 'Israel has the right to exist' so they believe that there is actually some law somewhere that says this but there isn't. Teaching should be about facts, not feelings or opinions. Teach that Israel exists. Teach about the right to self determination. Teach about the prohibition of territorial conquest and annexation. All of these things cover what needs to be covered without making up rights.

Its not stupid when people explicitly deny Israel's right to exist. Its only an issue because people wish to destroy Israel which is racist and genocidal.

Teaching should be about facts, not feelings or opinions.
Many subjects are about feelings and opinions. I would argue that law and rights are man made (subjective) concepts that reflect societal values which in turn have often been historically informed/enforced by the predominant faith. Even the stricture of the sanctity of life varies between societies. Laws are only valid as long as they are enforceable and enforced, that also varies by country and we tend to get used to what we already know. There is fragile consensus about these things, particularly at present.
I wonder how or if RE should be taught if all subjects must be factual?
Sticking to facts rather than made up propaganda talking points is probably more suited to Western education systems.
Education means different things to different people. Some people would like it to mean teaching how to think, others would prefer it to be teaching what to think, (which might be more peaceful but less desirable for creative problem solving).

wrt this thread, many people will say that antisemitism is a fact in the UK today and that it's rise was foreseeable, my perception concurs. Other people will disagree.
I poll as a lefty libertarian, on here I'd be accused of being right wing, on this board people like me have been accused of much worse.

Teaching that countries have a right to exist when no such right is of course stupid. Why would you teach something that isn't true? People explicitly deny a right that isn't a right in the first place? How does that even work?

You are talking in circles. I get it people are told over and over that 'Israel has a right to exist' and they believe it and think that there is actually some 'right to exist' out there so it's hard for them to process. It's a type of indoctrination that is taught, like religion. Rather than 'some people believe Israel has a right to exist' or 'some people believe Jesus died for our sins' they present these beliefs as facts. Indoctrination is hard to move past, that's why I don't believe that it has a place in schools. Tell people the facts and let them make up their own minds.