Hamas have 60 days to disarm

[Twiglets1]

Top Netanyahu aide: Hamas will have 60 days to disarm or IDF will ‘complete’ mission.

Israel plans to afford Hamas a 60-day period to disarm, and if it does not, the Israeli military will go back to war in the Gaza Strip, a senior adviser to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday.

Cabinet Secretary Yossi Fuchs made the statement a day after the premier asserted that the terror group must give up its small arms as part of the disarmament process, including its AK-47 rifles — after some reports that the terror group might be allowed to hold onto its rifles for now.

Speaking in Jerusalem to the Besheva Group conference, Fuchs said that the Trump Administration had asked for a 60-day period, and “we are respecting that.”

Fuchs clarified that he is unsure when the 60-day period starts, but it may begin with Thursday’s Board of Peace conference.

During that time, Hamas “will have to give up all of its weapons,” including rifles, he said, asserting that the terror group’s AK-47s “will be taken from them entirely.”

“We will evaluate it,” he said. “If it works, great. If not, then the IDF will have to complete the mission.”

He added that it was a “reasonable estimate” that before Israel’s next election — which is currently set for October but could be moved up to June — either Hamas will have given up its weapons or the IDF will be in the midst of an intensive new military campaign in Gaza.

www.timesofisrael.com/top-netanyahu-aide-hamas-will-have-60-days-to-disarm-or-idf-will-complete-mission/

For God's sake will Hamas just fuck off already?
For there to be any real pathway for Palestine there needs to be an Israeli election this year.
What do you think @Twiglets1? Will they disarm?

I don’t know what they hope to achieve by not disarming & fucking off quickly. Apart from more bad publicity for Israel if full scale war resumes again after the 60 days.

Still, most Hamas military probably don’t want to die despite the nonsense about virgins in the afterlife. So my guess is that they will end up doing a deal so they can give up their weapons & have the option of relocating elsewhere without repercussions or being given another job within Gaza.

Agree with you about the need for Israeli elections this year. That’s another big reason Hamas ought to avoid a full scale resumption of war. Because that could be used by Netanyahu as a reason to delay the election.

The best thing for the people of Gaza (though not convinced Hamas actually care about them) would be for Hamas to disarm quickly. The trouble they have is their leaders wanting to save face.

I hope you're right they'll take some kind of deal for comfy exile or immunity or something ( although the immunity bit would make me furious ).
I KNOW peace is possible... there is a pathway... 🙏🙏🙏

How will they achieve “giving up all their weapons” if you don’t know what weapons they have? Who is judging where the end point is?

@TomeTome I don’t have the answers any more than you do.

A ceasefire seemed almost impossible before it happened. And while some would put “ceasefire” in inverted commas, it’s definitely better than what was happening before it or could happen again in approximately 60 days if a deal can’t be agreed re the weapons.

Given what’s at stake, I’m trying like @dairydebris to be positive. Because the alternative could be the fragile ceasefire fails and we’re back to full scale war.

Coming out of tunnels.
Handing over weapons. ( agree hard to judge if all so lets say a reasonable number of them that could possibly conceivably be all of them? )
Stop shooting guns and attacking IDF forces. ( like any other surrender in the history of war- the surrendered side stops attacking and admits it lost )

They could do all this at an absolute minimum.

I would imagine the IDF will then search out any large weapon caches.

I appreciate it'll be hard for a lot of people to trust Israel to stop when the 'end point' is reached but surely you can see Israel has to disarm and remove Hamas?

No one wants to see full scale hostility start up again ( rather than possibly Hamas ).

This is hardly the first time this has happened. You are aware this is not the first conflict in the world, right? There are ways of doing these things, though Noone says it's easy. Especially when the pro Pals think there should be no blockades or controls on Hamas.

My question was more if you don’t know how many weapons there are how do you know when they have all been given up? Do you not remember Saddam Husseins government being asked to produce the super guns (sorry I can’t remember what that particular fantasy was billed as) or be invaded? What followed was the decimation of Iraq, the capture and subsequent hanging of their president, and then decades later the admission that the weapon had never existed.

I appreciate it'll be hard for a lot of people to trust Israel to stop
Do you? It sounds like you really don’t understand that no one trusts the Israelis to stop killing Palestinians because they have demonstrated that they will kill them in their tens of thousands even if they are babes in arms. Israel cannot expect any “trust” at all.

Do you have any better ideas @TomeTome for how peace could be achieved?

You sound like you don't agree that getting Hamas to hand over their weapons would be a good start.

If Hamas did that, even Israel's allies would expect them to also play their part in maintaining peace in Gaza, which is what is wanted by Israel's biggest & most powerful ally, Trump.

I don't think any of us will be in any position of authority determining if Hamas have given up sufficient weapons. And actually many people trust Israel, particularly if the peace is brokered within a sensibly monitored framework.

I don't think anyone trusts Hamas, do you ? @TomeTome.

On the contrary, plenty of governments including our own do trust the Israelis to stop killing Palestinians once Hamas have been dismantled.
The fact that you absolutely cannot understand or accept that- even if you personally don't agree yourself- speaks to the depth of your feelings for Israel, nothing else.

But fine, have it your way. Come on a post about Hamas disarming to speak about your distrust of Israel rather than your hope for Hamas to disarm. It's decidedly weird, when you could just say- yes, I hope Hamas disarm, but you prefer not to say that- fine. Freedom of speech etc.

I do believe theres a path, I'm not writing it off, I'm choosing to hope.

I doubt the “big wigs” of Hamas are even in Gaza and they don’t give a shit what happens to Gaza. So will they refuse?

I think if they do give back weapons will it be all of them, or just some? Imo I think they’ll hand over some. So Hamas can say “look we have!” It’s not like they are trustworthy.

If they do give all the weapons back will Israel believe that? Will we trust Israel are telling the truth about whats been handed over, I wouldn’t say Israel are 100% trustworthy either.

I think some people will accuse Israel of deliberately saying they haven’t handed them all back so they can carry on the war.

Odd responses.

So how do you know when enough weapons to be considered “disarmed” have been offered?

Are any Palestinians going to be allowed to retain arms? If they are how are the “acceptable” Palestinians going to be identified and who’s choosing?
I think I’ve been fairly clear that I done think IDF or Hamas should be enforcing anything in Palestine. I don’t think either are “trusted” by many (any?).

As an aside being powerful is not the same as being right or just or honourable. Trump is not someone I would be following and Israelis should question why he is there and if he is who they want as their bestie. Personally I wouldn’t leave him alone with a female relative, or trust him not to read a private letter or own up to breaking something in a domestic setting so I can’t imagine wanting him taking any part in my countries future.

I think @PevenseygirlQQ said what I was trying to express much better than I could 🙏

About bloody time. They should count themselves lucky that they're not locked up in a cell somewhere.

I find your response the odd one. You haven't answered if you have any better ideas than attempting to disarm Hamas, just asked more questions that no one on here is likely to have the answers to.

We could all keep asking questions forever but at some point the peace plan has to move forward or fail completely. Nothing about the peace plan is ideal or perfect but it is better than the alternative, surely.

And I never claimed Trump is right or honourable. The only claim I made about Trump is that he is Israel's most powerful ally. He will be strongly involved in Gaza going forward whether you or anyone else likes it or not.

What we can control is what we say and think and do ourselves. It’s important to speak up. It’s important to ask questions. “How does that work” is not a naive or stupid question. Neither should it be seen as intrinsically critical. I don’t think the IDF should be involved in Palestine going forward. I appreciate that some do.
If say “Indonesia” were tasked with disarming Hamas or IDF within Gaza how would they be identifying which people to disarm (if we are suggesting selective disarmament) and when the job was finished?

I’m not trying to be awkward I just genuinely can’t see how this isn’t an open ended impossible project. Surely if we want to start building trust and regrowth in a healthy way that promotes autonomy this is exactly the sort of fuzzy edged aim that we should be avoiding?

I'll leave you to your questions that can't be answered on MN @TomeTome

Hamas have 60 days - nothing fuzzy about that.

You ask a lot of key questions. I know many do not like comparisons made with Northern Ireland but just for the sake of demonstrating how complicated this process can be the decommissioning of paramilitary weapons, which was a condition of the good Friday agreement, took close to 20 years. It required legislation to determine how it would be done:
The Decommissioning Act, 1997 in the Republic of Ireland and the Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 in the United Kingdom which enabled a body to be set up to oversee the process.
The body overseeing the process were also completely independent: General (Ret.) John de Chastelain, Chairman, from Canada; Brigadier Tauno Nieminen, from Finland, and Ambassador Donald C. Johnson, from the US, 1997–99, Andrew D. Sens, from the US, 1999–2011.
Then you had the following people who were appointed to inspect IRA weapons dumps. Martti Ahtisaari, former President of Finland, and Cyril Ramaphosa, South African political and business leader.

I guess what I am trying to say is if this is going to work and achieve what everyone wants (Hamas disarming) the process needs to be transparent and independent otherwise it is just meaningless demands by Israel that will achieve nothing and allow the conflict to continue.

Hamas have 60 days - nothing fuzzy about that.

No not the 60 days to disarm that is clear. What is fuzzy is who is overseeing it? how is it to be done? who is inspecting the weapons' dump? who is determining whether all weapons have been de-commissioned. Surely people can see that without a proper plan it is impossible for Israel to know whether Hamas have fully disarmed?

It's not a meaningless demand by Israel @Boolabus

The IDF have effectively defeated the Hamas militants in Gaza so as the winning side, they & their allies do get to set the terms of any permanent ceasefire.

And it seems entirely reasonable that they won't be allowing armed terrorists to carry on with what they have been doing since Hamas came into power. For one thing, if Hamas are still armed & active there will be no investment in the reconstruction of Gaza and no withdrawing of the Israeli troops.

Hamas can say No but then the war will resume.

These are important questions but not ones that can be answered by Mumsnetters.

I'm sure there is a plan and that plan can be developed depending on the response by Hamas. The first (huge) step is for Hamas to agree to disarm.

Israel have been clear they want Hamas to give up their small arms - their AK-47 rifles. All other details will be irrelevant if Hamas refuse to do this, which is quite possible.

It's not a meaningless demand by Israel
I meant meaningless if there is not a proper plan for disarmament

Hamas can say No but then the war will resume.
Yes which is a very juvenile approach to achieving long-term peace in the region

I'm sure there is a plan
lets hope you are right and lets hope the process is transparent because neither side are to be trusted