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Conflict in the Middle East

Israel prepares to reopen Rafah crossing ‘in the coming days’

24 replies

Twiglets1 · 03/12/2025 12:56

As reported by The Independent:

Israel says it will open Gaza's main gateway in the next few days, allowing thousands of Palestinians who are in need of medical care to leave the war-ravaged enclave through Egypt.

COGAT, the Israeli military arm that oversees humanitarian matters, said the opening of the Rafah crossing will be coordinated with Egypt, under the supervision of the European Union mission, similar to a mechanism employed during a previous Gaza ceasefire agreed in January 2025.

Under U.S. President Donald Trump's 20-point plan that has largely halted the two-year war between Israel and Hamas militants, the crossing was to open in both directions.

At least 16,500 patients in Gaza are in need of medical care outside of the enclave, according to the United Nations.

Some Gazans managed to leave for medical treatment abroad through Israel.

Israel has kept Rafah shut in both directions since the ceasefire came into effect in October, saying that Hamas must abide by the agreement to return all hostages still in Gaza, living and deceased.

Hamas has returned all 20 living hostages in exchange for around 2,000 Palestinian detainees and convicted prisoners, but two more deceased captives - an Israeli police officer and a Thai agricultural worker - are still in Gaza.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-gaza-rafah-crossing-b2877187.html

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thingsarelookingupfornigel · 03/12/2025 14:03

Times of Israel:

An Israeli official, who spoke anonymously to the Associated Press to discuss operational plans, said that all Palestinians who want to exit Gaza will be able to exit through Rafah as long as Egypt agrees to receive them, but the crossing won’t be open for people wishing to return to Gaza. The official said the EU still had to make some adjustments to logistics before the crossing could open.

So no right to return. Shocker.

Twiglets1 · 03/12/2025 15:43

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 03/12/2025 14:03

Times of Israel:

An Israeli official, who spoke anonymously to the Associated Press to discuss operational plans, said that all Palestinians who want to exit Gaza will be able to exit through Rafah as long as Egypt agrees to receive them, but the crossing won’t be open for people wishing to return to Gaza. The official said the EU still had to make some adjustments to logistics before the crossing could open.

So no right to return. Shocker.

It's still all being discussed and Egypt has yet to agree to the crossing being reopened.

From your source An Egyptian official cited by al-Qahera said that any agreement to open the Rafah Crossing will see it open to traffic in both directions, in accordance with US President Donald Trump’s Gaza ceasefire plan.

I think it's sensible to wait and see what is agreed between Israel and Egypt.

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mids2019 · 03/12/2025 20:23

I think Egypt then has a decision then. I have always thought there may be a moral argument for allowing migration as rebuilding Gaza may take a generation. We can't have a tent city for 20 years and all parties recognise this (maybe not in public). Even if right to return is given how many Palesitinians given the means would want to stay?

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 03/12/2025 22:13

Well it’s their homeland. They built lives and businesses there. Even though Israel has destroyed most of it, they have the right to stay there. Why on earth, if you had a right to stay, would you want to live the rest of your life as a refugee? If there is a right to return, then fair enough. However, at the moment Israel is saying no, and Egypt are too poor to accept yet more people. Win, win for Israel then if it goes ahead.

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 04/12/2025 08:22

Times of Israel:

Holding onto the right to stay in Gaza is firmly established in international law, and anything contrary to that would be a war crime,” Diaa was quoted by Egyptian media telling the Cairo News Channel. Speaking later to Al Jazeera, he said, “the displacement of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip is a red line.”

Twiglets1 · 04/12/2025 09:10

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 04/12/2025 08:22

Times of Israel:

Holding onto the right to stay in Gaza is firmly established in international law, and anything contrary to that would be a war crime,” Diaa was quoted by Egyptian media telling the Cairo News Channel. Speaking later to Al Jazeera, he said, “the displacement of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip is a red line.”

I don't believe there is any talk of Palestinians being forced to leave Gaza is there?

Clause 12 of Trump's peace plan: No one will be forced to leave Gaza, and those who wish to leave will be free to do so and free to return. We will encourage people to stay and offer them the opportunity to build a better Gaza.

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thingsarelookingupfornigel · 04/12/2025 09:17

A one way crossing is already not upholding the peace plan though is it?

OneGreySeal · 04/12/2025 09:18

That’s all well and good but have they stopped killing children yet?

Twiglets1 · 04/12/2025 09:30

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 04/12/2025 09:17

A one way crossing is already not upholding the peace plan though is it?

Why don't you wait and see what the situation is when the crossing actually opens?

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thingsarelookingupfornigel · 04/12/2025 09:57

I will, but you learn from history.

CrossChecking · 04/12/2025 19:21

mids2019 · 03/12/2025 20:23

I think Egypt then has a decision then. I have always thought there may be a moral argument for allowing migration as rebuilding Gaza may take a generation. We can't have a tent city for 20 years and all parties recognise this (maybe not in public). Even if right to return is given how many Palesitinians given the means would want to stay?

'All parties recognise this, ' yeah especially Israel when they were paying contractors to bulldoze peoples homes and business and dropping the equivalent of 6 Hiroshimas worth of explosives on a tiny strip of land. They certainly knew what they were doing, to quote one of Israels democratically elected politicians 'Gaza will be entirely destroyed'.

It's almost like 'migration' was the plan all along....

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 04/12/2025 19:26

CrossChecking · 04/12/2025 19:21

'All parties recognise this, ' yeah especially Israel when they were paying contractors to bulldoze peoples homes and business and dropping the equivalent of 6 Hiroshimas worth of explosives on a tiny strip of land. They certainly knew what they were doing, to quote one of Israels democratically elected politicians 'Gaza will be entirely destroyed'.

It's almost like 'migration' was the plan all along....

Migration, ethnic cleansing. Dress it up any way you like.

Babyboomtastic · 05/12/2025 13:35

There was nothing in the peace plan that said, all hostage bodies has to be returned before Rafah reopened. That's just extra conditions of Israel put on it unilaterally. And they've had time to make the plans they're referencing, so they're just delaying again. Then saying it will only be open in one direction is the further change of plan.

Saying 'oh but the plan says they've got to open it so they will just give them time' is rather naive, given Israel's reluctance to stick to the plan so far, changing the terms of the plan unilaterally.

Gazans are still being killed. Children are being murdered. Bombs are being dropped on a daily basis. Homes destroyed. Insufficient aid being allowed in. This isn't peace, it's just a scaled down version of what's been happening for the last 2 years, to get the International community off Israel's back.

Twiglets1 · 05/12/2025 14:16

Babyboomtastic · 05/12/2025 13:35

There was nothing in the peace plan that said, all hostage bodies has to be returned before Rafah reopened. That's just extra conditions of Israel put on it unilaterally. And they've had time to make the plans they're referencing, so they're just delaying again. Then saying it will only be open in one direction is the further change of plan.

Saying 'oh but the plan says they've got to open it so they will just give them time' is rather naive, given Israel's reluctance to stick to the plan so far, changing the terms of the plan unilaterally.

Gazans are still being killed. Children are being murdered. Bombs are being dropped on a daily basis. Homes destroyed. Insufficient aid being allowed in. This isn't peace, it's just a scaled down version of what's been happening for the last 2 years, to get the International community off Israel's back.

Clause 4 of the peace plan: within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting this agreement, all hostages, alive and deceased, will be returned.

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Everexpanding · 05/12/2025 14:32

I think it is Israel who hasn’t returned all it’s hostages

Everexpanding · 05/12/2025 14:35

CAIRO (AP) — Under Gaza's ceasefire deal, Israel freed dozens of doctors, nurses, paramedics and other medical personnel seized during raids on hospitals. But more than 100 remain in Israeli prisons, including Dr. Hossam Abu Safiya, a hospital director who became the face of the struggle to keep treating patients under Israeli siege and bombardment.
Despite widespread calls for his release, Abu Safiya was not among the hundreds of Palestinian detainees and prisoners freed Monday in exchange for 20 hostages held by Hamas. Abu Safiya, director of Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza, has been imprisoned without charge by Israel for nearly 10 months.

Twiglets1 · 05/12/2025 14:55

No it’s Hamas who haven’t fulfilled hostage returns they agreed to under phase 1 of the ceasefire deal and until they do, phase 2 won’t begin.

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Babyboomtastic · 05/12/2025 15:34

Twiglets1 · 05/12/2025 14:55

No it’s Hamas who haven’t fulfilled hostage returns they agreed to under phase 1 of the ceasefire deal and until they do, phase 2 won’t begin.

No.

The 72 hours is given as a headline in clause 4, but it's supported by text giving a fallback position. This has 7 subclauses, many of which deal with difficulties of body retrieval and very much assume it's going to take longer than 72 hours!

To move to phase 2 requires the release of the living hostages and cooperation and efforts to try to find the remains of the dead, but not the handover of all remains.

It would have been unworkable for phase 2 to be stalled unless all remains were returned, because it's obvious that it's entirely possible that some remains would never be found.

The thing is, Israel refusing to move to the next phase is exactly what happened in the last ceasefire.

Even if your interpretation is correct, and phase 2 can't begin until every body is returned, Israel has had ample time to 'plan' the opening of Rafah, so why does it need more?

Also why does the fact that 99.2% of deaths between the parties were Gazans at the hands of the Israelis (356) compared with the other way round (3, by militants who may or not be Hamas), means Israel is sticking to the ceasefire?

And why isn't Israel sticking with it's obligations on aid, which were required from day 1?

Israel is not approaching this 'ceasefire' in good faith.

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 05/12/2025 18:50

Yes. The lack of aid getting in is one of the main issues. And so the ceasefire continues to be breached.

Twiglets1 · 06/12/2025 06:41

Only one more dead hostage to be returned and then Netanyahu has no reason not to move to phase 2.

If Hamas didn’t know where all the bodies were, they shouldn’t have signed the peace plan saying they would return them all. Yes it was known it was could take longer than 72 hours to recover all the remains and Israel have accepted that it is taking much longer than 72 hours. To my knowledge though, there’s no sub clause saying Hamas only have to try not actually return all the remains. I’m hopeful it will happen - for the sake of all concerned - but it’s taking time.

In the meantime things are going on behind the scenes to prepare for phase two. Trump has said that.

As always, I see no condemnation for the fact Hamas too hostages alive & dead. All the condemnation focused on Israel.

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thingsarelookingupfornigel · 06/12/2025 07:20

If it is a one way opening, giving no right to return, then this is yet another attempt by Israel to displace the Palestinians from their homeland. It breaches the conditions of the ceasefire. It’s all over the AP.

Twiglets1 · 06/12/2025 07:49

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 06/12/2025 07:20

If it is a one way opening, giving no right to return, then this is yet another attempt by Israel to displace the Palestinians from their homeland. It breaches the conditions of the ceasefire. It’s all over the AP.

We don’t know yet the details of how the crossing will operate.

I agree it would break the terms of the ceasefire if there is no right to return which probably means it won’t be allowed to operate in that way.

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Everexpanding · 06/12/2025 09:29

Interesting article on the ceasefire today

”On average, Israeli weapons now kill seven people a day. That rate of violent death would be considered an active conflict in many other contexts, raising questions about how accurately “ceasefire” describes the new status quo.

”It’s something that if you want to you can call a ceasefire, which is very convenient for the Americans and for everyone who wants this off their television screens and off their streets and off their annoying parliamentary and political schedules,” said Daniel Levy, a former Israeli negotiator and the president of the US/Middle East Project.

“It is very convenient for Israel. The pressure is off and they have smashed the whole place up, and can still kill as they please.”

https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2025/dec/06/bloodshed-was-supposed-to-stop-no-sign-of-normal-life-as-gazas-killing-and-misery-grind-on

‘Bloodshed was supposed to stop’: no sign of normal life as Gaza’s killing and misery grind on

The term ceasefire ‘risks creating a dangerous illusion life is returning to normal’ for Palestinians squeezed into the remaining 42% of their land behind Israel’s ‘yellow line’

https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2025/dec/06/bloodshed-was-supposed-to-stop-no-sign-of-normal-life-as-gazas-killing-and-misery-grind-on

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 06/12/2025 09:34

Times of Israel:

DOHA — Qatari Prime Minister Mohammed Abdulrahman Al Thani says Doha doesn’t consider the current situation in Gaza to be a ceasefire, arguing that this would require an Israeli withdrawal from the entirety of the Strip.
“We are at the critical moment,” Al Thani says about the Gaza peace process during a panel discussion at the Doha Forum.
“What we have just done is a pause. We cannot consider it yet a ceasefire. A ceasefire cannot be completed unless there is a full withdrawal of the Israeli forces, there is stability back in Gaza [and] people can go in and out, which is not the case today,” he maintains.

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