Breaking Ranks: Inside Israel’s War,

[Everexpanding]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/10/israeli-soldiers-breaking-ranks-gaza-civilians-human-shields

Israeli soldiers have described a free-for-all in Gaza and a breakdown in norms and legal constraints, with civilians killed at the whim of individual officers, according to testimony in a TV documentary

“If you want to shoot without restraint, you can,” Daniel, the commander of an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) tank unit, says in Breaking Ranks: Inside Israel’s War, due to be broadcast in the UK on ITV on Monday evening.

The soldiers who agreed to talk confirmed the IDF’s routine use of human shields, contradicting official denials, and gave details of Israeli troops opening fire unprovoked on civilians racing to reach food handouts at the militarised distribution points set up by the US- and Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF).

What they’re trying to do is exclusively portray the IDF, the predominantly Jewish Army, as an extraordinary force of evil (because Jews) rather than a regular army manned by regular humans - some bad, some not playing by the rules, some not following orders, as happens in every Army in the world.

Further complicated by their enemy forces, who are seen as the poor victims, being neighbours with a clear cause/Charter to want to kill the Jews as a whole and destroy their country, the levels of barbarity displayed on Oct 7th and in their previous long history of terrorist attacks which those they attacked aren’t supposed to be affected by at all, and their immunity of being expected to play by the rules of engagement themselves because terrorists innit, although the world believes everything they say and is negotiating with them, but they are not responsible for anything at all!

It’s an unprecedented position for an Army to be in and also globally scapegoated for, and absolutely nuts IMO.

Ok hands up. Youve got us.

Theres nothing us pro Israelis enjoy more than waking up to read about innocent civilians, in particular children, dying in awful ways. Really makes our day over cornflakes, especially as we cuddle our own dear ones.

And of course absolutely every IDF soldier is an absolute angel who has never, ever given into any bestial animal urges that sadly characterize literally every war humans have ever waged upon each other. This is obviously because Israelis are uniquely good above all other races upon on earth. War crimes have been commited by every army on earth other than Israel's.

No. We don't care. We dont give a shit about human rights or the rule of law or even the Geneva Convention. The only thing that motivates us is constant prostration of our minds to the great and powerful Israel.

Will that do?

🙄🙄🙄

@CrispyKnees

Are you incapable of condemning the killing of innocent civilians?
are you so biased that you can criticise no actions of the idf?
or do you just not care about the lives of Palestinians?
or for that matter do you not care for Israeli recruits exposed to and hardened to the killing of innocent civilians?

Prince Harry doesn't represent any man in the British army. He is a prince so hardly typical.

Now you're not going to like this but, to me, the audio does sound authentic. There is something about the voice that implies his adrenalin levels are through the roof. I think that would be hard to fake but as I'm not in the fakery business, I don't know. But I will post this quote. "Major international news outlets, including those reporting on the story, generally followed a cautious approach. Many reported the contents of the tape and its release by the IDF but usually added a disclaimer that they could not independently verify the audio's authenticity or the identity of the speakers". "For verification, analysts would need access to the original file, metadata, and voice samples of the alleged speaker, information the IDF would not typically release to the public or independent media". As I said though, the manic nature of the voice does imply to me, personally, that it is genuine. Your question though is he typical of every Gazan, which is what I assume you meant by represent. I would say before the war, no, but now, I'm not sure.

It's ok. I'm a mum, I can recognise attempts at emotional manipulation.

I particularly enjoyed the question wording so if I say no ( I do care) it sounds like the opposite sentiment. Cunning linguistics indeed.

Its the same questions over and again from this poster. Hopefully I've freed up some time for them 😇

Ever lower

Interesting those defending the IDF cannot answer if they have watched the documentary or not

I certainly do condemn the Palestinian terrorist ideology and cause that has led to the killings of innocent civilians before and during this war.

The IDF should absolutely be criticised and soldiers face prosecution when they have deliberately broken the law, as should any other Army and soldier.

The thing is though I’ve seen footage of what the Palestinians do to soldiers they’ve killed. Decapitating heads and desecrating/lynching and tearing apart slaughtered bodies spring to mind. Young men barely out of their teens forced to fight for their citizens lives against depraved terrorists.

I’m not sure why Israelis are expected to take the higher ground in terms of basic human nature of fear for their lives and what they know will happen to them if they are caught so I can fully understand mistakes being made in the extreme high stress environment of an urban war zone, with the savages they are up against having absolutely no rules of engagement, leading to bad decisions.

Despite what they are portrayed as on here, the IDF are mainly young men and women fighting in very traumatic circumstances. Just humans not robotic monsters.

Being honest, it’s difficult to care about people who celebrated the atrocities of Oct 7th perpetrated in their name, the dead civilians dragged through the streets, keeping hostages in their homes, knowing full well it would result in the mass bloodshed of their own people, including their children because they knew they had no protection from the war that was coming. How fucked up is that? I really can’t relate to that mindset TBH.

Of course the children are the innocent victims in this, including the children brainwashed to glorify evil terrorists, and the child soldiers trained to want to kill a people they’ve probably never even had first hand experience of.

There’s a big difference in psychology between being trained for defence and offence IMO.

The multiple nations that defeated ISIS who used civilians as human shields by kidnapping them from villages and forcing them into urban cities.

“The global coalition's War against the Islamic State, from 2014, had led to as many as 50,000 ISIL combatant casualties by the end of 2016.[86] Airwars calculated that 8,200–13,275 civilians were killed in Coalition airstrikes, mainly up to the end of 2017, with especially high casualty rates during the Battle of Mosul.[87] An Associated Press investigation found that in the Battle of Mosul, of the >9,000 fatalities, between 42% and 60% were civilians.[88]”

There are quite a few glaring differences in the Battle of Mosul and the war in Gaza. One of the main ones are that civilians were able to flee the fighting in Mosul.

Why weren’t they able to flee Gaza? Why were safe routes not set up to allow refugees to cross into a friendly neighbouring country?

It begins with E btw.

This article explains the unprecedented nature of the war in Gaza including Hamas’s goal which was not to actually win the battle on the ground.

www.newsweek.com/memo-experts-stop-comparing-israels-war-gaza-anything-it-has-no-precedent-opinion-1868891

Incorrect, civilians were not allowed to flee Mosul. ISIS even went so far as to kidnap extra civilians from the suburbs and outlying villages so that they had 1.5 million human shields trapped with them.

“GENEVA (28 October 2016) – Credible reports suggest that ISIL has been forcing tens of thousands of people from their homes in sub-districts around Mosul and has been forcibly relocating civilians inside the city itself since operations began on 17 October to restore Iraqi Government control over Mosul.
ISIL fighters are allegedly killing civilians who refuse to comply with ISIL’s instructions or who previously belonged to the Iraqi Security Forces, including 232 civilians who were reportedly shot to death last Wednesday.
At least 5,370 families were abducted by ISIL from Shura sub-district, another 160 families from al-Qayyarah sub-district, 150 families from Hamam al-Alil sub-district and 2,210 families from Nimrud sub-district of al-Hamdaniya district, reports indicate.
Forced out at gunpoint, or killed if they resist or try to flee, these people are reportedly being moved to strategic ISIL locations.
Information received indicates that 60,000 persons are currently residing in Hamam al-Alil, an ISIL stronghold with a previous population of 23,000.
“ISIL’s depraved, cowardly strategy is to attempt to use the presence of civilians to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations, effectively using tens of thousands of women, men and children as human shields,” Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights said. The use of human shields is prohibited under international humanitarian law, and constitutes a violation of the right not to be arbitrarily deprived of life.
Of the 232 civilians reportedly shot to death on Wednesday, reports indicate that 190 were former ISF personnel who were killed at the al-Ghazlani military base in Mosul. It appears that a day earlier many of these men and their families had been forced by ISIL from Shura and al-Qayyarah sub-districts, and were initially taken to Hamam al-Alil, where the men were separated from the women and children. The other 42 civilians were reportedly shot in the head at the al-Izza military base after they refused to join ISIL. Another 24 former ISF officers were reportedly killed on 25 October.”

more at
https://www.ohchr.org/en/2016/10/battle-mosul-isil-forces-thousands-civilians-their-homes-and-executes-hundreds

Why weren’t they able to flee Gaza? Why were safe routes not set up to allow refugees to cross into a friendly neighbouring country?

Because BOTH Hamas and the IDF did not allow civilians to flee.

In the war with ISIS, only ISIS didn’t allow civilians to flee.

If a civilian got away from ISIS and approached coalition forces, they were assisted as refugees.

In Gaza, the IDF set up invisible kill lines and the orders were to kill on sight any civilian attempting to flee Gaza. See the Breaking the Silence report “The Perimeter” which includes the testimony of IDF soldiers on this fact
https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/inside/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Perimeter_English-2.pdf

They even (unintentionally) killed escaped Israeli hostages trying to flee Gaza when there was no active battle happening which goes to show how conditioned the troops had been to not allow civilians to flee.

So yes, there are differences and some of these differences are why far too many civilians were killed.

Well according to the UN they were.

www.un.org/en/academic-impact/scale-civilians-fleeing-iraqs-mosul-staggering-%E2%80%93-senior-un-relief-official

My link is also a UN link.

They were not allowed to flee by ISIS.

your link only proves my point that if civilians get out of ISIS control, they’d be treated as refugees by the coalition army.

So yes the difference is not in ISIS vs Hamas, but the armies that fought them.

Suggest you read the ICRC casebook on ISIS use of civilians as human shields:
https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/iraq-battle-mosul

In this they were equally despicable as Hamas.

But unlike the IDF, the coalition forces allowed civilians that got away from ISIS to flee and be taken care of by the UN’s humanitarian operations in refugee camps well away from Mosul.

It is just not true that Hamas was unprecedented as a type of threat or urban warfare.

I think Netanyahu would disagree with your assertion that Israel wouldn’t let Gazans leave.

From Oct 2023:

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu sought to convince European leaders to put pressure on Egypt into accepting refugees from Gaza, according to people briefed on the discussions. The idea, which he put forward in meetings with European officials last week, was floated by countries including the Czech Republic and Austria in private discussions that led up to a summit of EU leaders on Thursday and Friday, those people told the Financial Times.
^^
However, key European countries, notably France, Germany and the UK, have dismissed the proposal as unrealistic, pointing to Egyptian officials’ consistent resistance to the idea of accepting refugees from Gaza, even on a temporary basis.
^^
Cairo has vociferously expressed its concerns that Israel would seek to use the crisis to force its problems with the Palestinians on to Egypt. President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said this month that his country rejected “any attempt to liquidate the Palestinian issue by military means or through the forced displacement of Palestinians from their land, which would come at the expense of the countries of the region”. Egypt’s potential role was discussed in the EU summit, people briefed on the leaders’ discussions told the FT. But leaders ultimately agreed that Egypt should play a role in providing broad humanitarian assistance to Gaza, but not be pressured to accept refugees.
^^
“Netanyahu pushed quite hard that the solution was for Egyptians to take Gazans at least during the conflict,” said a western diplomat. “But we didn’t take it very seriously because the Egyptian position is and has always been very clear and they just won’t do it.”

https://www.ft.com/content/75971d8b-e2fd-4275-8747-0bd443673483

More recently:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-accuses-egypt-of-imprisoning-gazans-against-their-will-in-growing-war-of-words/

For anyone who truly supports innocent Palestinians and children, this should be the scandal of the century.

Don’t be ridiculous, you are quoting the attempt to forcibly displace Palestinians to a third country. That has nothing to do with allowing civilians to flee to safety outside a territory being invaded. Iraq wasn’t talking to Turkey and demanding they take all civilians from Mosul and refusing to let any flee ISIS and stay within Iraq. 🤨

Palestinians in Gaza should have been allowed to flee from Gaza into Israel or the West Bank.

and to be clear, I’m not “asserting” anything. I am factually reporting on what IDF soldiers who fought in Gaza have stated that their orders were shoot to kill anyone.
https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/inside/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PerimeterEnglish-2.pdf

Here is the link again since you have neglected to read it the first time.

I typed up some quotes by IDF soldiers from various different ranks within the IDF. These quotes were taken from the first section of the documentary (the first 20 minutes), might be useful to those of you that want to argue that it is just a "few bad eggs" without actually watching it. I will try and type up more later on.

“If you want to shoot without restraint, you can."

"There are certainly soldiers and officers in the IDF who really, really want to kill all the arabs. Really. That's the reason why they put on their uniforms."

"I think the use of force on Gaza is probably unprecedented in combat, in terms of the number of explosives dropped per square mile."

"You can justify a lot in the name of destroying Hamas. You can push the red line very, very far."

"Teenagers would sometimes walk there. The company commander really wanted us to kill them. My platoon commander just told him, "No." Later, the company commander really gave it to him. There's no one above the company commander, and if he tells you to shoot, it's not like you'll be prosecuted for it."

"We fired quite a few warning shots, but we also killed at least one person."

"Every man of fighting age is supposedly a terrorist. And must be killed. No matter if he has weapons or not."

"We saw two teenagers pushing some sort of cart. And the first shot fired was directly to the head. And I was like, "Woah, that's not exactly what I would have done.""

"I didn't shoot at any unarmed Palestinians myself, but I did see it happen with my own eyes."

"If you want to shoot without restraint, you can. One time, there was a building that was being used for humanitarian purposes. One of the commanders really, really wanted to target this building. But we told him very clearly, "Mate, this building is off limits." Then he fired a shell at it anyway. And he said, "I saw an anti-tank weapon aimed at me." Now go prove him wrong. Prove him wrong"

“Life and death isn’t determined by procedures or opening fire regulations. It’s the conscience of the commander on the ground that decides.... If they’re walking too fast, they’re suspicious. If they’re walking too slow, they’re suspicious. They’re plotting something. If three men are walking and one of them lags behind, it’s a two-to-one infantry formation – it’s a military formation.”

"I personally witnessed a relatively high-ranking officer order a tank to take down a building. The building was on the side of the line where they [Palestinians] were "allowed" to be. A man was standing on the roof, hanging laundry, and the officer decided that he was a spotter. He’s not a spotter. He’s hanging his laundry. You can see that he’s hanging laundry. Now, it’s not as if this man had binoculars or weapons. The closest military force was 600-700 metres away. So unless he had eagle eyes, how could he possibly be a spotter? And the tank fired a shell. The building half collapsed. And the result was many dead and wounded. . . . This kind of thing happened every week. And that's just my unit, there are dozens of units on the ground at any given moment."

"If you want to, you can always find a reason to incriminate someone. The question is, what are your standards? How much effort does it take to incriminate a human being? If I wanted to, I could incriminate the entire Strip. Is this building too big, do you find it threatening? Go ahead, shoot."

"At the end of our deployment in the Strip, we submitted a report. The commander's summary. And it said that we "took down [killed] 112 terrorists." I can confidently say that only one of them... Only one! Was even suspected of being armed. That is, the 111 other people we killed, no one even claimed they were armed."

On being asked by the interviewer how many civilians is it legitimate to kill to kill a Hamas battalion commander, Lieutentent Colonel B, replies initially stating they act in accordance with international law but then ending with: "I am far-right in my views. I think there's no limit. If you ask me, I would have pushed them all into the sea with D9s [bulldozers] on October 7, given them snorkels, and let them swim to Egypt."

You know better than one of the world’s leading experts in urban warfare do you? You may think so but I agree with you I’m afraid.

The writer of the article I posted at 13.39:

John Spencer is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, combat veteran, national security and military analyst, and internationally recognized expert and advisor on urban warfare, military strategy, tactics, and other related topics. Considered one of the world’s leading experts on urban warfare, he served as an advisor to the top four-star general and other senior leaders in the U.S. Army as part of strategic research groups from the Pentagon to the United States Military Academy.

Spencer currently serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point, Co-Director of the Urban Warfare Project, and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast.

He is the co-founder and executive director of the Urban Warfare Institute, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to advancing the study of urban environments, urban operations, and urban warfare.

He also serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies with the Madison Policy Forum, a New York based think-tank. He is a founding member of the International Working Group on Subterranean Warfare.

His research, spanning over a decade, focuses on military operations in dense urban areas, megacities, urban and subterranean warfare and includes cutting-edge field research into ongoing or recently concluded wars and battles from Nagorno-Karabakh, Ukraine, Israel, to Gaza.

He is the author of three books: Understanding Urban Warfare, (Howgate Publishing, 2022), Connected Soldiers: Life, Leadership, and Social Connections in Modern War (Potomac Books, 2022; Winner of the 2023 Gold Medal Award, Best Military History Memoir, Military Writers Society of America), The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender (John Spencer, 2022).

His over 140 book chapters, case studies, and professional articles have appeared in the Time Magazine, New York Times, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, NY Daily News, Wired Magazine, Politico, The Hill, Foreign Policy Magazine, Defense One, Army Magazine, and many other publications. Spencer is also a regular military analyst and commentator for CNN, MSNBC, FOX, BBC, and numerous news and media organizations.

In February 2022, Spencer wrote a guide, The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender, for the citizens of Ukraine on how to defend their cities. The manual was translated into Ukrainian and spread widely across all of Ukraine. It is now available in sixteen separate languages with many other translations in the works.

Serving over twenty-five years in the active Army as an infantry soldier, Spencer has held ranks from Private to Sergeant First Class and Second Lieutenant to Major while serving in elite and storied military units from the 75th Ranger Regiment, 173rd Airborne, to the 4th Infantry Division. His assignments as an Army officer included two combat deployments to Iraq as both an Infantry Platoon Leader and Company Commander, a Ranger Instructor with the Army’s Ranger School, a Joint Chief of Staff and Army Staff intern, fellow with the Chief of Staff of the Army’s Strategic Studies Group, and Co-Founder, Strategic Planner, and Deputy Director of the Modern War Institute at West Point. While teaching at West Point, he received the West Point Apgar Award for Excellence in Teaching.

After active duty, Spencer serves as a Colonel in the California State Guard with assignment to the 40th Infantry Division, California Army National Guard as the Director of Urban Warfare Training where he cofounded, designed, and instructs in the world’s only course specifically designed to improve the ability of Division and Brigade commanders and staff to successfully plan, conduct, and sustain large scale urban operations.
Spencer holds a Master of Policy Management from Georgetown University.

"Palestinians in Gaza should have been allowed to flee from Gaza into Israel or the West Bank."

You cannot be serious.

Given that approximately 2000 Gazan civilians took part in 7 October, Hamas don't wear uniforms, and the absolute sky high level of hatred amongst sections of both Palestinian and Israeli society, you honestly think Israel should have allowed Gazans to flee into Israel? You think that would have worked out well? For either side?

‘Palestinians in Gaza should have been allowed to flee from Gaza into Israel ‘

Yet you call me ridiculous.

Gee, Israel was apparently carrying out a genocide on Palestinians but you think they should have fled to Israel.

I bet you didn’t type that with a straight face.

Cross post.

Amazing suggestion.

good grief, this guy actually agrees with me on the facts.
His opinion isn’t the only expert opinion going and judging by the date of the opinion he wrote was in 13 Feb 2024, I doubt very much he feels the same way today

All he said about the difference between Mosul wnd Gaza was there werent nearly as many tunnels in Mosul as Gaza. ISIS exploited the underground subway tunnels in Mosul, just because tunnels were not purpose built for terror that doesn’t make them any less useful in war, albeit less secret.

pretty minor difference.

He said nothing about “glaring differences”

That is exactly what the coalition did for civilians fleeing ISIS controlled areas.
It worked out pretty damn good. Tens of thousands fewer dead children and only 9-10 months to victory.
International reputation intact.
No allegations of genocide.

In hindsight it was a bad decision to help Hamas hold on to their human shields by using a death zone perimeter around the Gaza Strip.