Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Media language in the middle east

53 replies

Perfect28 · 14/10/2025 06:43

Why are Israelis 'hostages' but Palestinians are 'prisoners held without trial'?

OP posts:
Perfect28 · 14/10/2025 08:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Twiglets1 · 14/10/2025 08:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

The Israeli hostages are innocent of any crime regardless of when anyone thinks the war started.

SharonEllis · 14/10/2025 08:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Try taking that definition to a court of law 😆

Perfect28 · 14/10/2025 08:51

Twiglets1 · 14/10/2025 08:43

The Israeli hostages are innocent of any crime regardless of when anyone thinks the war started.

Yes just as the over 1000 Palestinians taken without trial' are?

Let's also not forget that most (all?) of the hostages returned yesterday were IDF soldiers...

OP posts:
Perfect28 · 14/10/2025 08:52

@SharonEllisi think the law courts are going to be busy prosecuting the perpetraters of genocide, don't you?

OP posts:
dairydebris · 14/10/2025 09:06

Perfect28 · 14/10/2025 08:52

@SharonEllisi think the law courts are going to be busy prosecuting the perpetraters of genocide, don't you?

Well first of all they'll have to make a ruling on whether anyone on either side is actually a perpetrator of genocide... or if indeed a genocide has taken place at all.

If you want the Palestinian detainees innocent until proven guilty I think you'll need to apply that standard to both sides in the interests of fairness, don't you?

As of now, no one attached to this war has been found guilty of genocide.

I expect lots of people will be watching this genocide case very, very closely.

Twiglets1 · 14/10/2025 09:11

Perfect28 · 14/10/2025 08:51

Yes just as the over 1000 Palestinians taken without trial' are?

Let's also not forget that most (all?) of the hostages returned yesterday were IDF soldiers...

Your lack of knowledge about something you are choosing to argue about is astonishing to me. Most (or all as you suggest) were NOT IDF soldiers:

Alon Ohel, 24, loves music and began playing the piano at the age of 9. He planned to begin his studies at Israel’s Rimon School of Music in October 2023, but was kidnapped at the Nova music festival in southern Israel on Oct. 7 along with Eliya Cohen, Or Levy and the late Hersh Goldberg-Polin.

Ariel Cunio, 28, was working as a software tester and shares a love of astronomy with his partner, Arbel Yehud, who grew up with him in kibbutz Nir Oz. He and Yehud were kidnapped together, but she was released in January under a previous ceasefire deal. His brother David Cunio was also kidnapped Oct. 7 and released Monday.

David Cunio,* *35, is the older brother of Ariel Cunio and worked as an electrical technician. On Oct. 7, he held the safe room door in the family home for five hours while attackers tried to open it. His wife, Sharon Cunio, and their two daughters were also kidnapped but were released after 52 days in captivity.

Avinatan Or, 32, was born and raised in Shiloh before moving to Tel Aviv, where he worked for Nvidia. He was kidnapped from the Nova music festival along with his girlfriend, Noa Argamani, who was rescued in a military operation in June 2024.

Bar Kupershtein, 23, was a staff member at the Nova music festival. A combat medic, he was helping victims of the Oct. 7 attack before being abducted himself.

Eitan Avraham Mor,* *25, worked at a coffee shop in Jerusalem and was also on the security team at the Nova music festival, where he was said to have helped evacuate wounded people before he was abducted.

Eitan Horn,* *39, immigrated to Israel from Argentina as a teenager and worked in education. On Oct. 7, Horn was visiting his brother Yair Horn in kibbutz Nir Oz, where they were both kidnapped from his home.

Elkana Bohbot,* *36, was one of the organizers of the Nova music festival, and was helping to evacuate the wounded when he was abducted.

Evyatar David, 24, was abducted from the Nova music festival along with his friend Guy Gilboa-Dalal, who was also released Monday. His brother, Ilay David, described him to NBC News as a “brilliant guitar player” with the “kindest soul I know.”

Gali and Ziv Berman,* *28, are twins and avid soccer fans who worked together in kibbutz Kfar Aza, where they grew up. They were kidnapped from the kibbutz along with their friend Emily Damari, who was released in January.

Guy Gilboa-Dalal, 24, was seen with Alon Ohel in a video released last month by Hamas. From a young age, Gilboa-Dalal has admired Japanese culture and anime, even studying the language. Outside of Japanese culture, he enjoys music and attended the Nova festival, where he was kidnapped along with his friend Evyatar David.

Maksym Harkin, 37, immigrated to Israel from Ukraine with his family. He is the son of a single mother who describes him as the anchor of the family. Although he doesn’t often go to parties, Harkin attended the Nova music festival with friends, two of whom were killed, and he was kidnapped to Gaza.

Omri Miran,* *47, a shiatsu therapist and gardener, was kidnapped from the safe room of his home in kibbutz Nahal Oz in front of his wife, Lishay Miran, and two young daughters, one of whom was only 6 months old at the time.

Matan Zangauker, 25, was abducted from kibbutz Nir Oz along with his girlfriend, Ilana Gritzewsky.

Rom Braslavski, 21, is from Jerusalem and was working as a security guard at the Nova music festival.

Segev Kalfon, 27, was abducted while trying to flee the attack on the Nova music festival.

Yosef-Chaim Ohana, 25, was abducted while trying to flee the attack on the Nova music festival with a friend.

Matan Angrest, 22, Nimrod Cohen,* *21 were IDF soldiers.

SharonEllis · 14/10/2025 09:46

Thank you @Twiglets1

SharonEllis · 14/10/2025 09:48

And anyway IDF soldiers doing their job are not fair game for hostage takers.

Twiglets1 · 14/10/2025 09:57

SharonEllis · 14/10/2025 09:48

And anyway IDF soldiers doing their job are not fair game for hostage takers.

Definitely not, especially as conscription is mandatory in Israel (apart from a small number of exceptions). It’s not like the UK where a young adult would actively have to choose to join the armed forces.

HellsBalls · 14/10/2025 10:06

The thread that was taken down last night had someone called ‘Peace100’ commenting exactly the same thing, that the hostages were not innocent.
Pretty disgusting. Their account has been deleted.
Just more derangement over the ceasefire.

Twiglets1 · 14/10/2025 10:10

HellsBalls · 14/10/2025 10:06

The thread that was taken down last night had someone called ‘Peace100’ commenting exactly the same thing, that the hostages were not innocent.
Pretty disgusting. Their account has been deleted.
Just more derangement over the ceasefire.

So glad I missed that thread.

RingoJuice · 14/10/2025 10:11

Shellyash · 14/10/2025 06:47

Also why are 20 Israeli hostages the same value as 2000 Palestinian prisoners, why do they have so much more value?

When you read the backgrounds of some of those Palestinians…well, let’s just say they are very different.

1dayatatime · 14/10/2025 10:26

Ihatetomatoes · 14/10/2025 08:32

That wouldn't go down well with pro hamas who want prisoners back, especially high profile long sentence murderers, to give positions in hamas leadership. They are rearming and killing anyone who is against hamas, so poor Palestinians who don't want hamas, have little change of genuine freedom!

Ahh - so the racism against Palestinians here is coming from Hamas and the pro Palestinian lobby who believe that Israelis are much more valuable than Palestinians on the basis one Israeli is worth 20 Palestinians.

Honestly the contradictions of this, ceasefire now protests continuing and the fact that the peace deal was put together by Trump is like looking at the pro Palestinian lobby having a computer glitch.

xenogear · 14/10/2025 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DrPrunesqualer · 14/10/2025 21:47

Depends on which news article you read
Israeli hostages are always termed hostages

Palestinians in jail are mainly referred to as detainees
some call them prisoners without trial

it’s a tricky one as some have been tried and charged
some have been held without even charge
and a lot have never been tried or found guilty of anything

EasyTouch · 15/10/2025 06:27

How come so many Pro Palestinians appear to be irritated that the peace that they claimed they wanted has been agreed to?
So much lashing out and bitterness and still a refusal to hold Hamas to any account as it kills Gazans with no help from Israel.

I guess hatred of Israel is more powerful than love of Palestinians for too many Pro Palestinians.

But that has been the case since at least the prominence of Yassar Arafat, if not before.
And no, it is not racist that Israel values the life of an Israeli more than Hamas does a Palestinian.

Expecting an enemy to value one's own more than one does or expecting an enemy to value their own as little as their enemy values their own in order for things to be seen as " fair" is high fuckry.
The question should be why does Hamas not value a Palestinian life as equivalent to an Israeli life?

Therein one will find an answer as to why Hamas sold out tens of thousands of Gazans souls in order to get their sadistic two year planned kicks from murdering/ raping/ kidnapping not two thousand Israeli ( and adjacents') .

Perfect28 · 15/10/2025 06:30

@EasyTouchonly someone immensely naive would believe that what we are seeing now is peace.

It's a very fragile ceasefire with almost no agreement as to the way forward.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 15/10/2025 07:00

Perfect28 · 15/10/2025 06:30

@EasyTouchonly someone immensely naive would believe that what we are seeing now is peace.

It's a very fragile ceasefire with almost no agreement as to the way forward.

But it is at least a temporary ceasefire and lots of aid is coming in.

The Palestinians want the ceasefire to hold (apart from Hamas).

There is a phase 2 (which has been agreed by all parties) though it won't be easy to implement it unless everyone works together for what should be a shared goal of peace in Gaza.

Beachtastic · 15/10/2025 11:07

Shellyash · 14/10/2025 06:47

Also why are 20 Israeli hostages the same value as 2000 Palestinian prisoners, why do they have so much more value?

This is so bizarre, you talk about it as though it was Israel's preference to use that ratio. Do you really think they want to release so many dangerous men back into Gaza to renew their genocidal plans for Israel?

Terrorists drive a hard bargain, as the release of Gilad Shalit demonstrated (mentioned by a PP).

DrPrunesqualer · 15/10/2025 11:14

Twiglets1 · 15/10/2025 07:00

But it is at least a temporary ceasefire and lots of aid is coming in.

The Palestinians want the ceasefire to hold (apart from Hamas).

There is a phase 2 (which has been agreed by all parties) though it won't be easy to implement it unless everyone works together for what should be a shared goal of peace in Gaza.

Israel reduced aid entering Gaza yesterday

They continue to control

Decisions looking forward should not be controlled by Israel. Their control over Palestinians lives should be at an end
and yet….

DrPrunesqualer · 15/10/2025 11:20

Shellyash · 14/10/2025 06:47

Also why are 20 Israeli hostages the same value as 2000 Palestinian prisoners, why do they have so much more value?

Lives should never be looked at in terms of value
The numbers are not equal as Israel holds thousands of Palestinians in their jails. Most without trial
So innocents proved guilty of nothing

This isn’t about Israeli lives worth more than Palestinians as you suggest with your figures.

Twiglets1 · 15/10/2025 11:42

DrPrunesqualer · 15/10/2025 11:14

Israel reduced aid entering Gaza yesterday

They continue to control

Decisions looking forward should not be controlled by Israel. Their control over Palestinians lives should be at an end
and yet….

Agree that aid should not be restricted now.

Also worth mentioning is that Hamas should have returned most of the dead Israeli hostages by now as agreed in the peace plan they signed but have only returned 7/28 at this time. Hopefully another 4 will be returned later today.

I also agree with you that it would be better if another body was controlling Gaza now (not Israel or Hamas) but it seems the new organisation is not ready yet to take over.

inamarina · 15/10/2025 11:53

Beachtastic · 15/10/2025 11:07

This is so bizarre, you talk about it as though it was Israel's preference to use that ratio. Do you really think they want to release so many dangerous men back into Gaza to renew their genocidal plans for Israel?

Terrorists drive a hard bargain, as the release of Gilad Shalit demonstrated (mentioned by a PP).

It is a truly bizarre argument, and yet not really surprising for those who seem determined to blame Israel for everything and anything.
As far as I know, even in the POW exchanges between Russia and Ukraine the numbers are equal, whereas Israel has to release hundreds upon hundreds of detainees and people still find reason to complain.

justanotherpassword · 15/10/2025 19:11

inamarina · 15/10/2025 11:53

It is a truly bizarre argument, and yet not really surprising for those who seem determined to blame Israel for everything and anything.
As far as I know, even in the POW exchanges between Russia and Ukraine the numbers are equal, whereas Israel has to release hundreds upon hundreds of detainees and people still find reason to complain.

I’d be questioning why Israel has so many people in prison without them being charged including children and Doctors.