Kemi Badenoch - Carnival of Hate

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15164147/Kemi-Badenoch-tolerance-radical-Islamism-carnival-hatred-Britain.html

I agree with this terminology as it aims up what we are seeing in British streets in a daily basis. All the main political parties and the public at large are now calling it out for what it is. The Home Secretary is now looking at legislative change quite rightly to stop the day in day out propagation and iamplification of anti semitism.

So protesters consider who they are standing beside when they virtue signal of the streets of our cities?

If it says a sledgehammer was used against a person then yes. Early reporting was based on a local papers inaccuracy
The actual charges against PA based on facts and evidence are relevant not the bbc or Bristol papers

Chanting "death death to the IDF" does matter. Israel uses conscription, every Israeli over 18 is conscripted to join. There has been a huge issue over the years with ultra orthodox Jews who do not support the modern state of Israel insisting that they can not be conscripted. This chant is basically saying death to Israelis, death to Jews. Many of whom even in Israel do not support the actions of their state. Are they morally responsible to the point of desering death? of course not, just as ordinary innocent Palestinians should not be paying the price with their lives for actions of Hamas.

Did German soldiers deserve to die in their thousands just because they were our enemy? These wars are not our wars. No war ever was, or will be in the interests of the people.

Samuel Corner, 22, has been charged with criminal damage, violent disorder, aggravated burglary, GBH with intent and two counts of ABH.

The charge does not state what weapon he used but he is being charged with grievous bodily harm and actual bodily harm. The newspapers report that he used a sledgehammer against two police officers, hospitalising the female officer.

The case is scheduled for the 17 November 2025.

If you wish to still believe this is not true please provide me with credible links to the contrary.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/group-charged-over-violent-disorder-and-aggravated-burglary-business-premises

Note the ones that start son/ or daughter/.

Those are newborn babies killed before they were named.

Or it's saying death to the institution. "Death to the patriarchy" doesn't mean kill all men, it means the dismantling of the system that oppresses women.
"Death to big oil" is a slogan representing strong opposition to large fossil fuel companies, because of concerns that they have knowingly contributed to climate change, harming the environment and causing deaths.

Death to X is a metaphorical phrase referring to the literal cessation of an organization's existence through closure or dissolution.

The death of the middle class doesn't mean that everyone middle class has died, it means there has been a social and economic shift.

The death of print media doesn't mean that everyone involved in print media has died. It means that there has been a shift in how people view media.

Tldr: Death is a common metaphor, it means the cessation of something, not the literal death of everyone involved.

Ok, even if we accept that interpretation, lets say men were being actively murdered for being men in the name of 'kill the Patriarchy'. That women had invaded places where men were, shouting 'kill the men'. One even rang her mum from the murder scene gleefully telling her how many men she had killed today.

A normal person would not take to the streets soon after chanting 'kill the patriarchy'.

The IDF is not an abstract institution like the patriarchy (regardless of how real patriarchal cobtrol still is). It is an army made up of normal men and women, some of whom are arab, and who keep all Israelis, of all religions and ethnicities safe.

For a country to have an army is normal.

The level of threat against Israel is not particularly normal though. If the IDF did not exist Israel would not exist and a very large proportion of the world's tiny Jewish population would be murdered.

To shout death to the IDF means death to Israel. Death to Israel means death to the Jews. There is no other interpretation.

Christ, the idea that the 'cessation of Israel' would not mean the literal death of Jews is beyond belief.

The cessation of the IDF Sharon, nobody but you was talking about the cessation of Israel. Israel does not equal the IDF. The organisation that has been carrying out genocide, apartheid, torture, sexual assault and other crimes. It could be replaced by an organisation with more of a moral compass and less propensity to parade around in the underwear of their victims.

The people chanting death to the IDF like Bob Villian for example and protesters have killed no one. Unlike the 1000s of people the IDF have killed, tortured and sexually assaulted. I don't know why anyone would want the IDF to remain in its current form, why would you want an organisation who have carried out genocide to remain as is? Serious deradicalisation needs to be done at the very least.

Again, lets assume we accept your premise. Deradicalisation does not equal death.

It would mean the death of the IDF as it is now. Deradicalised people wouldnt enact racial segregation or defend settlers as they burn people out of their homes or torture and sexually assault detainees including children or shoot people trying to reclaim their loved ones dead bodies off the street or execute children in the street or shoot an 80yo woman who was off to buy groceries 6 times or execute aid workers, bury them in a mass grave then lie about it. People who see Palestinians as equal humans would be far more likely to treat them that way which would be very far from the IDF as it stands now.

I agree. These things have been evidenced. There are several documentaries and interviews about the ideologies taught in schools in Israel. There is no reasonable argument that can dispute that Israeli society is subject to ideologies of hatred towards Arabs. How else could these IDF soldiers inflict these horrific acts. But this still doesn't justify calling for the death of these people. No more than insisting that every Hamas fighter should die. These people have experienced trauma like we can not possibly understand.

I'm anti capitalist, if I were to start a conversation with you about surplus value and explain that fundamental to understanding capitalism is to explain class relations you might look at me as though I'd fallen out the sky. That is because most people accept as facts the "common sense" ideas they are exposed to. Capitalism is the free market and we are free to make rational choices.....blah blah, the vast majority of people not only never question this, but when pushed will defend this.

I have no doubt that when angry Arab or Muslim men are screaming "death death to the IDF" they are not using metaphors or thinking of the institution. They quite literally want to see Hamas kill Israeli Jews.

I think Arab or Muslim men can be educated enough to know about metaphors and it comes across as a little racist and more than a little divisive that you would single them out above everyone else in a British protest and say these guys, these ones here, they definitely want to see dead Israeli Jews, not even just soldiers ie the IDF who have been waging violent occupation and apartheid for decades but you have broadened it to 'Israeli Jews'.

......like jihad means struggle and intifada means uprising and zionists isn't used as code for Jews, and apparently yehud means Israel not Jews.

It also ignores the non Jewish Israelis (e.g. Druze) that serve in the IDF. After all we're consistently told that 2 million non Jewish folk live in Israel.

Even the BBC after investigating complaints about Bob Vylan for the chant stated:

“‘Death, death to the IDF’ is clearly more problematic, but it is directed at an institution rather than individuals, and one which is not defined by ethnic or religious composition.”

I have no doubt that when angry Arab or Muslim men are screaming "death death to the IDF" they are not using metaphors or thinking of the institution. They quite literally want to see Hamas kill Israeli Jews.

What on earth do you mean by this?

Why have you singled out Arab Muslim men? You think they aren't capable of understanding metaphors? I'm guessing you don't know much about Arabic then.

My fault, I should have been more specific (note to self don't read Mumsnet at work). I am speaking about the ones waving Hamas flags. But yes, people are angry. Some know very well what they are chanting.

Whats a Hamas flag?

I haven’t seen anyone waving Hamas flags at the marches.

Just Palestinian ones.

What Hamas flags.???
Do you have the proof ???because we all know that’s

not true is it.

Has anyone considered what these marches will become if a ceasefire holds?

if the 'genocide' stops (and pray tell me when was ever genocide stopped by negotiation) the baying mobs of course won't be satisified. The marches then will become not anti war but pure anti semitism.....daily protests about the formation of Israel itself accompanied by the thinly veiled if at all hatred of Jews. The marches will act as a spring board for further abuse and worse of our Jewish communities and an ageing to the many of us non Jews who fear for the safety of the state of Israel. Everyone is very much aware of the consequences of anti semitism in history, that is why Germany has always been such a strong advocate for the state of Israel.

those wanting these protests to stop aren't pro genocide and to say such things is a perverse defence against right minded people that deplore racism. It is good when we see people of colour such as Kemi and Shabana make cases against the hate marches as it shows this is not a race issue it's an anti hate issue.

The disrespect of protests today towards the Jewish community says it all really.

You have some imagination anyway I'll give you that much.

You just have to look at the thread that was in aibu about the marches to see where the hatred lies. Look at the thread about the flotilla and see the nastiness towards the activists. Look at the language used here towards the marchers. There is seething hatred around this issue for sure but it isn't coming from where you are saying. It's not about people 'being strong advocates for the state of Israel.', most people couldn't care less about an insignificant country like Israel. The vast majority of people against the marches are united by hate, just like Netanyahu and Tommy Robinson.

If Israel stop their illegal occupation, stop their disgusting racial segregation and terrorist support then I can guarantee most pro Palestinian people will never think of Israel again because like I said it's insignificant to most. All this money wasted on propaganda and fear mongering when all they have to do is stick to Israel and stop trying to steal other people's homes and most people will forget they even exist.

I dont agree there is a carnival of hate against Jewish people in the uk. I do think it would be really wrong for anyone to demonstrate today, given the two year anniversary of the carnage against Jewish people.