Are all the pro Palestine protests aiding Reform getting into power?

[mids2019]

As a new hard left party threatens to emerge to hoover up the pro Palestine ,mainly muslim, vote does this further reduce Labour's chance of winning future elections? I think the alarming prospect of recognising a Palestinian state while a terrorist group is in charge will cause a lot of working class voters to become further disillusioned with our foreign policy and link it with immigration problems. We also have England flags appearing all over the country and I think this is in part a response to the sight of Palesttan flags being draped around certain neighbourhoods which have led a lot of people to become more nationalistic and fear social division.

It will be interesting to see if Yvette Cooper will use the same language as Lammy in future about the conflict as maybe Keir has belatedly realised that being aggressive against Israel has led to a backlash against his party by a lot of the public who saw it as a weakness and a bias.

Reform have stayed silent on this foreign issue but if Farage were to link immigration over the years with pro Paestinian mob support then I personally think this may come out as an electoral advantage and the major parties especially Labour have to be really careful. Recognising Palestine at the UN will not be a vote winner and won't help Keir Starmers woes politically - a lot of those cheering on state recognition are already going to vote for the anti semitic Cornyn and Sultana.

I think they add to the sense of social disintegration that Reform feeds off and capitalises from. Antisemitism has become a 'political football' for the Reform right as a cover for anti-muslim sentiment, just like its used by Yaxley-Lennon and his crowd. They will manipulate anything to justify anti immigration sentiment and I wish the pro Pals wouldn't give them so much material but racism is only ever the responsibility of the racist.

I agree. The war has caused social division in our country that will take decades to heal. The emergence of the new hard left party ran by Corbyn to attract disingenuous Palestine supporters made me think about the anti semtism scandal that rocked Labour and took a lot of effort to clean up - anti semitism and politics is back. Yes, pro Palestine feelings are being exploited by racists and in my opinion will lead to further destabilization of the main political parties in this country with fringe parties affecting votes in many votes to the detriment of stability in the UK.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/_mSY2jDsS1Y

Farage, whose party leads in most polls, is anti UK recognition of the Palestinian state. You could perhaps surmise that the quiet majority really are not in favour of granting statehood to a terrorist group. Keir Starmer may backtrack on his announcement of UK recognition of Palestine as it hold s no salve for his electoral wounds currently and pandering to the hard left in his party who are salivating at the prospect just seems silly politically. People are worried about the NHS, illegal immigration and taxation and to some extent see virtuous glorification about a Hamas led Paestine as a gross distraction to pressing domestic problems.

A yougov poll from July showed that 45% are in favour of recognising Palestine, and 14% are not. The rest are unsure. This was in line with a previous yougov poll done in 2024.

So I’d disagree with your comment in the OP that a lot of people who support recognising Palestine will vote for Corbyn - I don’t think he’d get anywhere near that % of the vote.

I wonder if people are agreeing to recognition of a Palestinian state when questioned as it is the virtuous thing to say about a question they probably have not thought about? The question isn't asked as would you be happy with a Palestinian state with Hamas in charge as I would think the answers would be different.

It can't be discounted that Reform are leading in most polls and they are not exactly screaming for state recognition and I think they have made a little political capital from this stance.

https://www.reformparty.uk/reform_mayoral_candidate_cox_calls_for_demo_ban

This is reform and they are leading in the polls. Shifts to supporting Palestine by the major politicàl parties aren't getting results electorally. I not Lammy has gone from foreign Secretary to perhaps allow Cooper to be more diplomatic in her relationship with Israel and have something of a reset.

I think people are making some interesting points re the impact of recognising Palestinians and the flag push back but I think Labour have to accept that the reason they are going to have a tough time in future elections is because of their choices and comms. I think the disappointment a lot of labour voters feel is the biggest reason they’ll look elsewhere. That, combined with a floundering Conservative Party means the only options are Lib Dems, Green, Reform.

Sadly, some people blame a lot of the current economic issues on immigrants and Reform is ready for them with open arms. I think Reform is much more harmful to the future and peace in this country than people supporting starving/traumatised Palestinians.

I disagree that Starmer has had an aggressive stance against Isreal. On the contrary, he is being judged, and losing votes, for not doing enough to stand up against humanitarian crimes being committed by a so called ally.

The Labour Party has traditionally been the party for minorities and those who feel oppressed and who are being harmed by bigger powers, and by throwing those values away, he is throwing votes away.

We might not want a Palestinian state led by Hamas, but an Israeli state led by Netanyahu is equally as abhorrent. This does not mean that a two state solution is the wrong answer.

Labour are in a difficult position trying to win back supporters on the left as well as the Red Wall types who are more likely to go right.

Personally I am frustrated by issues which are not really left/right issues being cast as such. For me Israel/Palestine is one of these, as is the trans debate.

The more extreme right wing will take any opportunity to promote their racist agenda but I think there are a lot of people who are pretty uncomfortable with the Palestinian flag being flown all over the place and when you hear that you are ‘not allowed’ to fly the St George cross, these kinds of things can become ‘gut’ or ‘heart’ issues that motivate voters.

People want ‘their’ party to support ‘their’ causes and views and get upset when they don’t.

what is really bad for Labour is pretty much everything to do with the economy. If the economy was okay the other issues wouldn’t provide such leverage. Angela Rayner, the kind of person who we should be proud to have in govt, has just scored an own goal of breathtaking stupidity. It’s a mess. Strident views on foreign wars they have very little influence over are unlikely to help them.

You can disagree with netanyahu (I do) but no rational person believes he is the equivalent of the Hamas leadership. Its this kind of stuff that people try to normalise on these threads but its nonsensical and discredits anyone who suggests it.

If Reform do well, it will be because of the people voting for them.

Im tired of this infantalisng of Reform voters. Their vote, their responsibility, no one else's.

37% of voters in a Yougov poll said immigration was the most important issue at this time (August). That’s compared to 25% economy and just 7% health. Nearly half the country believe immigration has been mostly bad for the country.

I find this information sad but not surprising. Immigrants are an easy group to blame for all our woes. Reform have jumped on this reasoning because it’s easy to whip up anger and frustration when you have a clear and common ‘enemy’ and they can run around telling the country they are going to fix everything just by fixing immigration.

25% of labour members said they would consider backing JC’s new party. Not sure how much of that is frustration with the current labour govt vs pro Palestinian votes vs long standing JC fans.

Can you link the poll please?

Yes @PinkBobby, before Brexit, everything was the EU’s fault and now it’s all the fault of immigrants.

If the economy was doing well, people would care less about immigration. The rhetoric around the economic impact of immigration (they take our jobs, housing, benefits, GP appointments, etc) is still much stronger than that around the cultural impact. Because people actually are seeing standards of living drop, they need to find a cause/scapegoat.

I’m afraid I copied that from my copy of August’s ‘The Week’ but I’ll see if I can find a web version/easy link!

I found it, thank you.

It's a real pity that blaming the last government in power for your current problems has become such a cliché. Because that's the issue. The effects of long years of increasingly self indulgent Tory government pandering to their rich mates has flattened our economic system to an extent that can't be fixed quickly, easily or without spending more money to build up run down systems and resources. But governments get elected on the promise of making things better and people are desperate. Lots of groups feel they have it hardest and their needs are being ignored in favour of others who are getting an easy ride.

All these problems will take time and effort to fix, but in the meantime Reform ride up with answers that aren't really answers at all, but placate some of the worried groups above. What we'll actually get are more policies for the rich only but then it'll be too late. I wish I knew how to get a grip on it all on behalf of Labour who have inherited a poisoned chalice.