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Conflict in the Middle East

Sexual violence as a weapon of war during October 7 massacre

137 replies

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 10:38

A new report providing the first legal framework for prosecuting Hamas terrorists for the use of sexual violence as a weapon of war during the October 7, 2023, massacre is being presented by the Dinah Project to First Lady Michal Herzog at the President’s Residence in Jerusalem.

The report confirms that Hamas systematically used rape and sexual violence as tools of war during the October 7 massacres and is the first to present a legal roadmap for identifying and pursuing justice for the use of sexual violence as a weapon of warfare, which constitutes a crime against humanity.

The gathering of primarily women notably includes former hostage Ilana Gritzewsky, who has publicly spoken about being sexually assaulted by her captors in Gaza.

“This report tells the truth as it is — shocking, painful, but necessary. On behalf of all those who were harmed, we are committed to continuing the fight until their cries are heard everywhere and justice is done,” says First Lady Michal Herzog.

“We carry here a universal message: that sexual violence cannot be accepted as a tool of war,” she says, drawing attention to the plight of the remaining 50 hostages, including Inbar Hayman, the single female captive who is believed to be dead.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-provides-legal-framework-to-prosecute-sexual-violence-during-oct-7-hamas-massacre/

OP posts:
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ByGreenHiker · 08/07/2025 22:53

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:48

On numbers alone it’s hard to say, but when we get into things like Dresden…?

But thats the basis for all the anti Israel sentiment on here

Israel killed far more people. That's not an argument at all.

Yeah it's war, war is horrendous, the deaths are awful and horrifying but if based on the numbers Is all someone can argue then the Allies were wrong in WW2, which they werent.

Dangermoo · 08/07/2025 22:54

@ForgesOfEmpires I think you're bloody marvellous x

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 22:54

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:49

Ok so you’re not a Jew and I am. But you know better than me what is antisemitism. Great.

I have no idea who you are, but I do trust the Jerusalem Declaration has defined antisemitism correctly, over an anonymous person on mumsnet.

Beyond that, it should be fairly obvious that demanding Jews renounce Israel in order to not be targeted with antisemitism is one of the most revolting things I have heard today in a wide field.

Whatsinanamehey · 08/07/2025 22:55

How can you say none of this is Israel's choice. I know innocent people in the occupied west bank who are too scared to leave their homes at night. If they go out they need to leave atleast one person home or a settler will come and steal their house. The IDF protect these settlers. How can you say Israel has no choice in this?

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:56

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 22:54

I have no idea who you are, but I do trust the Jerusalem Declaration has defined antisemitism correctly, over an anonymous person on mumsnet.

Beyond that, it should be fairly obvious that demanding Jews renounce Israel in order to not be targeted with antisemitism is one of the most revolting things I have heard today in a wide field.

I literally never said that? You made that up yourself. And you being so invested in this as a non Jewish person is suspect.

Madcatdudette · 08/07/2025 22:57

Whatsinanamehey · 08/07/2025 22:08

All of your posts ignore (purposefully? Subconsciously? )all of the atrocities that the IDF and the state of Israel and the radical settlers have and continue to inflict on the Palestinians.

Radical settlers?
Why did Israel start bombing? For shits n giggles or because the Hamas ‘government’ committed terrible atrocities first?

Dangermoo · 08/07/2025 22:58

Madcatdudette · 08/07/2025 22:57

Radical settlers?
Why did Israel start bombing? For shits n giggles or because the Hamas ‘government’ committed terrible atrocities first?

You've more patience than me.

sualipa · 08/07/2025 22:58

sualipa · 08/07/2025 22:46

bottom line is yeah, the middle east is messy, loads of groups got displaced and borders were drawn by colonial powers. but the difference is most of those people eventually got to rebuild got citizenship, a state, rights etc. palestinians didn’t.

they were made refugees in 1948 and still are now. most still don’t have a country, or proper rights. some live under occupation, some under blockade, some in camps for generations. thats not ancient history, it’s still happening.

also it’s just not true to say they all just "left" because arab leaders told them to. some did leave, sure, but many were kicked out or fled violence. even israeli historians admit this happened in alot of places. so its not just some biased take.

and yes, jews from arab countries also suffered and had to flee too totally valid point. but they were taken in by israel and built new lives. palestinians didn’t get that. they’ve been left stuck with no good options.

this isn’t about denying anyone a homeland or safety. it’s just recognising that one group got a state, and the other didn’t and they’re still paying the price. that’s why it’s not over. not cause they “won’t move on” but because they’ve never been given the chance to.

As for Haifa - it's not as cut and dried as you assert.

They left because they were told to” is a myth of generalization:

Modern scholarship, including work by Israeli historian Benny Morris, shows a complex mixture:

Some fled out of fear.
Some were expelled deliberately and were massacred and subject to Irgun terrorism (e.g., Lydda, Ramle, Deir Yassin).
Some left due to local collapses or psychological warfare.
And yes, some were told to leave by Arab commanders.
There was no blanket evacuation order from Arab leadership for all Palestinians.

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/41537?

Benny Morris is an ardent Zionist but belives the truth should be told.

While working at The Jerusalem Post in the 1980s, Morris began reading through the Israel State Archives, at first looking at the history of the Palmach, then turning his attention to the origins of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight. Mainstream Israeli historiography at the time explained the 1948 Palestinian exodus from their towns and villages as having been driven by fear, or by instructions from Arab leaders. Morris found evidence that there had been expulsions in some cases.[2] Another event that Morris revealed for the first time based on his archive study was the contacts between the Israeli officials and the Lebanese Kataeb Party figures, including Elias Rababi, in the period 1948–1951.[16] The related news reports were also published in The Jerusalem Post in 1983.[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris

Why Did the Palestinians Leave, Revisited

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/41537

Whatsinanamehey · 08/07/2025 23:00

Madcatdudette · 08/07/2025 22:57

Radical settlers?
Why did Israel start bombing? For shits n giggles or because the Hamas ‘government’ committed terrible atrocities first?

🙄

Yes, radical settlers. The ones who terrorise Palestinians daily.

stonecutter · 08/07/2025 23:02

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:56

I literally never said that? You made that up yourself. And you being so invested in this as a non Jewish person is suspect.

Wait, what? Why would only Jewish people be invested in this? Should only black people be invested in racism towards black people? Should only women be interested in women's rights? Should only Palestinians and Israelis be interested in the conflict we are discussing?

girljulian · 08/07/2025 23:03

stonecutter · 08/07/2025 23:02

Wait, what? Why would only Jewish people be invested in this? Should only black people be invested in racism towards black people? Should only women be interested in women's rights? Should only Palestinians and Israelis be interested in the conflict we are discussing?

No, but it’s very strange and unsettling when a non-Jewish person is so set on telling a Jewish person what antisemitism is.

Madcatdudette · 08/07/2025 23:16

Whatsinanamehey · 08/07/2025 23:00

🙄

Yes, radical settlers. The ones who terrorise Palestinians daily.

No don’t eye roll. Tell me who you are referring to with ‘radical settlers’?

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 23:23

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:56

I literally never said that? You made that up yourself. And you being so invested in this as a non Jewish person is suspect.

I have a degree in Genocide Studies and have seen the consequences of antisemitism up close. I speak out against it whenever I see it, so I find it quite odd that you, “as a Jewish person,” take issue with that. I'm also Egyptian, and this conflict is happening just a few miles from what is or was my home - so of course I have a personal interest in it.

Frankly, some of what you’ve said here is bizarre - not just in how it dismisses racism and antisemitism entirely, but in how you ignore what people are actually saying and go straight for fairly thinly veiled personal attacks. That’s a strange approach, especially on an anonymous forum.

Try and stick to the conversation!

girljulian · 08/07/2025 23:40

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 23:23

I have a degree in Genocide Studies and have seen the consequences of antisemitism up close. I speak out against it whenever I see it, so I find it quite odd that you, “as a Jewish person,” take issue with that. I'm also Egyptian, and this conflict is happening just a few miles from what is or was my home - so of course I have a personal interest in it.

Frankly, some of what you’ve said here is bizarre - not just in how it dismisses racism and antisemitism entirely, but in how you ignore what people are actually saying and go straight for fairly thinly veiled personal attacks. That’s a strange approach, especially on an anonymous forum.

Try and stick to the conversation!

wow it’s so good to know you have a degree in a thing that affects me and not you 🙄

ByGreenHiker · 08/07/2025 23:42

girljulian · 08/07/2025 23:40

wow it’s so good to know you have a degree in a thing that affects me and not you 🙄

It's called the argument from authority which is a fallacy.

She should tell you why you're wrong rather than telling you what degree she has.

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 00:10

girljulian · 08/07/2025 23:40

wow it’s so good to know you have a degree in a thing that affects me and not you 🙄

Oh sorry, I will send it back and let them know you don't approve.

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 00:11

ByGreenHiker · 08/07/2025 23:42

It's called the argument from authority which is a fallacy.

She should tell you why you're wrong rather than telling you what degree she has.

Maybe if you read the thread you'd see I wasn't telling her why she was wrong. She asked why I had an interest in antisemitism and I answered that question. Maybe put the wine away for tonight!

Dangermoo · 09/07/2025 07:07

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 00:10

Oh sorry, I will send it back and let them know you don't approve.

Maybe you should address the poster, directly.

Oops, sorry, that was for @ByGreenHiker

Twiglets1 · 09/07/2025 07:11

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:56

I literally never said that? You made that up yourself. And you being so invested in this as a non Jewish person is suspect.

Don't be so ridiculous.

You tried implying that @ForgesOfEmpires wouldn't know as much as you just because you are Jewish and they aren't and now you are trying to imply there is something "suspect" about them being so informed about these issues because they are non Jewish.

Was that the only reason you wanted to know if they were Jewish or not? So you could try to score points over their identity?

How about keeping personal stuff out of it and stick to debating the actual topic?

OP posts:
Dangermoo · 09/07/2025 07:54

Twiglets1 · 09/07/2025 07:11

Don't be so ridiculous.

You tried implying that @ForgesOfEmpires wouldn't know as much as you just because you are Jewish and they aren't and now you are trying to imply there is something "suspect" about them being so informed about these issues because they are non Jewish.

Was that the only reason you wanted to know if they were Jewish or not? So you could try to score points over their identity?

How about keeping personal stuff out of it and stick to debating the actual topic?

@ForgesOfEmpires has ruffled a few feathers because of her knowledge.

Twiglets1 · 09/07/2025 08:11

Dangermoo · 09/07/2025 07:54

@ForgesOfEmpires has ruffled a few feathers because of her knowledge.

I know - they have literally been criticised for having a degree in Genocide Studies

OP posts:
Imnobody4 · 09/07/2025 13:50

On the issue of proportionality.
This was settled at Nuremburg,known as the 'Dresdon defence'.
The chief defendant, was SS-Gruppenführer Otto Ohlendorf of the
Einsatzgruppen.
A judge immediately pointed out that his own killing spree preceded those bombings. But this would become known as the “Dresden
He was hanged.

Dangermoo · 09/07/2025 17:32

Imnobody4 · 09/07/2025 13:50

On the issue of proportionality.
This was settled at Nuremburg,known as the 'Dresdon defence'.
The chief defendant, was SS-Gruppenführer Otto Ohlendorf of the
Einsatzgruppen.
A judge immediately pointed out that his own killing spree preceded those bombings. But this would become known as the “Dresden
He was hanged.

Well, if we are talking proportionality, when it comes to rape, oh, you're not talking about the thread topic, are you?

mids2019 · 10/07/2025 06:51

@ForgesOfEmpires

Excellent posts.

mids2019 · 10/07/2025 06:59

I think part of the suppression about the sexual violence on October 7th was due to sensitivity of obviously Muslim men raping and killing non Muslim women upon the most horrendous way. We have now questions about grooming gangs and their reporting in the UK so I wonder if there was some avoidance of delving into too much detail in the British press to avoid the ire of some Muslims?