Hamas says new Gaza talks have begun, hours after Israel launched major offensive

[Twiglets1]

BBC: Hamas says its negotiators have opened a new round of talks aimed at ending the war in Gaza, hours after Israel launched a major offensive.

Taher al-Nounou, an adviser to the head of Hamas, told the BBC a new round of negotiations had officially begun in Doha on Saturday. There were no preconditions from either side, and all issues were on the table for discussion.

Israel Katz, the Israeli defence minister, said Hamas negotiators were returning to indirect talks in Qatar to seek a deal on the hostages.
Katz called the move a "departure from the recalcitrant position they had taken up until that moment".

It came after Israel's military said on its Hebrew X account that troops had been mobilised for "Operation Gideon's Chariots" to seize "strategic areas" of Gaza and free hostages.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd7geg3lvz1o

Yep

PM’s office: Doha team examining potential deal to end war, release all hostages, disarm and exile Hamas

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office says Israel’s hostage negotiation team in Doha is exhausting “every possibility” for a deal, including a potential agreement that would see the end of fighting, in an apparent shift in approach.

The PMO says that the team is working toward the possibility of either US special envoy Steve Witkoff’s proposal for a short-term ceasefire and limited hostage exchange, or an agreement to end the war through a comprehensive release of all hostages in Gaza and the complete surrender and exile of Hamas.

“Under the prime minister’s direction, even at this hour, the negotiating team in Doha is working to exhaust every possibility for a deal — whether according to the Witkoff outline or within the framework of ending the war, which would include the release of all hostages, the exile of Hamas terrorists, and the disarmament of the Gaza Strip,” writes the PMO in a statement.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pms-office-doha-team-examining-potential-deal-to-end-war-release-all-hostages-disarm-and-exile-hamas/

Sounds hopeful.

I think the focus on Hamas is missing the point.

If you invade, occupy and systematically opress a population of people then those people will resist, that resistance will manifest itself violently. There's no getting away from that.

As former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barack said "if I were a young Palestinian, I would join a terrorist organisation".

Get rid of Hamas another terrorist resistance movement will take their place. There is no possibility of Palestinians accepting the situation without resistance.

And your solution is......
,

I can understand why you say the focus on Hamas is missing the point.
The problem is it's not just Hamas that has chosen this route.
Successive Palestinian leadership going back to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem has chosen violence rather than negotiation.
It didn't have to be this way. Palestine could have chosen to declare a state back in 1948 and work towards that goal through talking and negotiating.
Instead, successive leadership has chosen terrorism, intifada, hatred of Jews rather than love for their own.
And now, it might actually be too late for Palestine, given the extreme right wing views of the current Israeli administration.
I do honestly believe it's a tragedy for the Palestinians, but I do not agree it's a tragedy only of Israel's making.

Could they have chosen a state in 1948 given the opposition of the British?
When you say successive Palestinian leadership have chosen violence rather than negotian, what are they negotiating for? Is a two state solution really an option? Is there any option available to the Palestinians other than what is offered at the moment?
It was Moshe Dayan who said the policy of Israel to the Palestinians could be summed as "we will make you live like dogs until you leave" if that's the case and it's clear it is, conflict is inevitable

Could they have chosen a state in 1948 given the opposition of the British?
When you say successive Palestinian leadership have chosen violence rather than negotian, what are they negotiating for? Is a two state solution really an option? Is there any option available to the Palestinians other than what is offered at the moment?
It was Moshe Dayan who said the policy of Israel to the Palestinians could be summed as "we will make you live like dogs until you leave" if that's the case and it's clear it is, conflict is inevitable

I think they could? There was a proposed partition of land, which still would have given them much more than they have these days.
The British flip flopped between who they most wished to support in any case, as always led by their own self interest.
There was huge pressure for self determination from many Arab groups at that time- following the break up of the Ottoman empire. The war that was declared on Israel at its birth was just a land grab for these many emerging Arab nations, at the cost of Israel. Palestinians have been consistently let down by their own piss poor leadership's decisions. For example aligning with Hitler. They could have had a state many years ago. Now.... not so much...
Obviously very complicated, more than we can say here. But honestly I think it didn't have to be this way, and so it doesn't always have to be this way.
October 7th was a huge fuck up tho. I don't know if Palestine is ever coming back from that given who's in power in Israel at the moment.

Well personally I'd like to see a two state solution. That doesn't seem to be a possibility, Israel seems intent on ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank.

That could never have happened while Hamas were in charge of Gaza.

Senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad told Lebanese TV on 24 October that “we will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated.”

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-is-a-two-state-solution-and-do-israelis-and-palestinians-want-one

I don't think that was ever a possibility personally, I may be wrong but the Israeli government seems committed to the greater Israel project so I don't believe any historic agreement would dissuade them in the present.
I don't think there's any evidence that the israeli government would follow any other path regardless of the position of Palestine leadership. Look at the way Israel has funded and propped up Hamas purely to justify the continued ethnic cleansing

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Well yes it could never happen with Hamas in charge which is exactly why Israel have funded and supported Hamas for years to justify not supporting a two state solution and further ethnic cleansing

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

So if it isn't a real possibility, you still haven't answered @quantumbutterfly about what is the solution?

Yeah but they probably like the riffraff to be nice and far away. Personally I agree, they should deliver every single member of Hamas to Doha. They can deal with the nutters they have nurtured themselves.

OK.
But why wasn't it a possibility in 1948?
Because if they'd have just said ok, we accept, they'd have a nation now.
But instead they said, no, Jews should have nothing, and went to war.
And look where we are now.

And, would you accept living next door to Hamas?

In hindsight, that was a very bad policy.

I don't think the people of Gaza are going to be any happier with whatever "solution" is worked out for Gaza as the war moves towards the end.

I believe the answer is a two state solution. Israel doesn't want that

And until there is one, violence is likely to continue.
It's really not that hard to understand.

I don't believe it was a possibility because the British said no, I really don't think it was an option then, even if it was I don't believe Ben Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich would respect that agreement in the present. You may disagree I understand, but they've been very clear they're committed to a greater Israel.
Would I be happy to live next door to a member of Hamas? Probably not. Would you be happy to live in Gaza under Israeli restrictions?

I agree completely

The British didn't say no. They proposed borders that Israel accepted and Palestine didn't.

I agree it looks too late now.

But that's on Hamas. If they hadn't commited 7 / 10 then we wouldn't be here now. 50k gazans would still be alive. Their homes would still be standing.

No, I'd hate living under Israeli restrictions. And I'd hate living under Hamas. I'd hate my children being taught that violence is glorious. I'd hate having less rights than men. I'd hate getting shot in the legs for protesting against oppressive, nondemocratic government.

Stop blaming Israel for Palestinian leadership failings.

I believe many Israelis do.

I don't really understand? Your argument appears to be that the Israelis are morally superior to Hamas and as such any action the Israelis take is beyond criticism?
I don't for one minute believe Hamas are the best option for Gazans but that doesn't absolve Israel of responsibility.
Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands of children do you believe that is morally acceptable in any circumstance? Do you believe that action will further the interests of Israel or fuel further conflict?

I believe so too, the current extremist government in Israel is not representative of Israelis and is doing enormous damage to Israels legitimacy and reputation worldwide