Do recipients of aid usually have to pay for it?

[BaMamma]

This confuses me. Gaza has no economy to speak of right now, and the only trucks getting in are aid trucks, so why do I see reports mention that the price of flour has gone up in the last few days?

Do recipients of aid usually have to pay for it, hasn't the aid already been paid for?

It’s only been a couple of days after over a month of masses of supplies going in. Too, with almost 2 million people there, even a dozen fully stocked supermarkets aren’t going to feed 1/10th the population for more than 1 day. So you can’t really get a feel for is there a shortage by looking at a few photos.

That X account is an Israeli account, that scours through any social media from Gaza that shows food to make a point that because there's some food in some areas, nobody in Gaza is suffering.

Do you have a problem with me asking questions about Gaza? You don't have to respond you know.

I hope you find the answers you have been looking for 😊

Why would I have a problem?

I think @saraclara and @LoremIpsumCici have explained it quite well.

You've commented on my posts, so they seem to bother you, how would I know why you'd have a problem?

Yeah, there is some food in Gaza, but it doesn’t logically follow that no one is suffering.

Bit like posting photos of a dozen posh private hospitals in London to make a case that the NHS is doing absolutely fabulous and the thousands dying while on waitlists is a myth, because these dozen photos prove that no one is suffering from lack of healthcare.

Yes exactly, that's a good example. It's the point i was trying to make but you have explained it better than me.

Even during the time period when there was hardly any aid trucks going In (as recorded by COGAT) they would post something like someone holding a piece of break to say look! There's a Palestinian with a piece of bread so it can't all be that bad.

That's not really what I'm talking about though, is it?

My question is more to do with who is selling what to whom?

We hear about aid trucks being allowed in or not allowed in from Israel and sometimes from Egypt, but not about other ways supplies get in, so it seems like all the food getting in is aid and I don't understand why people would have to pay for aid, but they clearly do because there are reports about the price of goods going up.

In this thread I've been informed that there are other ways that supplies get in, so apparently, it's not all aid and there are people making big money exploiting the suffering of their fellow Palestinians. Which is reprehensible in itself.

Most of them are too daft to realise.

The rest knows how the system works and don't care.

And then there's the whataboutery and the denial to boot.

@BaMamma wrote;
In this thread I've been informed that there are other ways that supplies get in, so apparently, it's not all aid and there are people making big money exploiting the suffering of their fellow Palestinians. Which is reprehensible in itself.

Whilst of course, we in Britain have never had a black market during wartime. Those rotten foreigners are just so reprehensible.

Surely the "discussion" is not about shortages and black marketeers, but about why should Israel block aid into Gaza ? That is exactly what is happening.

How does starving your neighbours go towards achieving a peace with them ?

Several factors that may be relevant...

Food aid may be distributed to households, but what happens with it next is partly up to the people in those households. As happens all over the world, people may need to sell needed food products because of greater needs, eg for life-saving medication, for shelter. There are people in the UK who have drastically cut down on food to afford to use their heating over the winter - similar calculations are made around the world all the time. It's also partly up to local law enforcement to ensure people aren't being robbed or otherwise pressured/coerced into giving up the aid they receive - as the local law enforcement is currently Hamas, their fellow terrorists and unaffiliated gangs, this won't be happening effectively and, in reality, these groups are among the ones most likely to exert pressure on people and take what they have.

In some situations, a proportion of aid, rather than being distributed to individuals and families, is used to keep local trading/markets/businesses functional. A devastated economy makes it harder to recover from disasters and conflicts. I'm not sure what if any percentage of current aid distribution in Gaza is being distributed in this way, but it may be a factor. Aid has been reaching bakeries so they could restart making bread, so people will be buying this.

There is a black market. This is a pretty common thing to have in any situation in which people are experiencing rationing or restrictions on items they need. During years of blockade, the black market in Gaza became very experienced in what it does - that is, getting things people want, for a profit. So, it's not 'just' people profiteering for the first time; it's an established economy in itself, run by people with decades of experience. Black markets tend to be unpredictable and volatile in their pricing, especially in disaster zones and times of war.

Supply and demand affect prices, and a fragile economy is vulnerable to dramatic, sometimes unpredictable, fluctuations in pricing. This applies to legitimate economies and black market economies.

Of course, the UK had a black-market during war time, and the people involved risked prosecution and for their lack of patriotism. Popular culture seems to remember them fondly though, think of Flash Harry from the St Trinian's films.

I'm just trying to understand how it works in Gaza, where the electricity has been 'about to go out' for over a year, likewise water, and there is plentiful food in some places, while other starve, there is no economy, the price of food keeps going up, Israel is stopping the aid, but aid isn't the only way supplies get in. It's confusing, no?

@BaMamma wrote

It's confusing, no?

I guess it could be confusing for the hard of understanding.

You're right, I'm being disingenuous.

It looks to me like more Hamas propaganda and profiteering. There are several reports of Hamas redirecting aid, and it's clear that Hamas operatives are well fed, so no problem getting supplies to them. I understand that Israel restricts what gets in, but it's further restricted by the very people who should be helping the Palestinians, their leaders.

I think it's awful that the Palestinian people are the pawns in this, treated as disposable by their own leaders. I wish there was a way to free them from Hamas's control.

@BaMamma wrote
I think it's awful that the Palestinian people are the pawns in this, treated as disposable by their own leaders. I wish there was a way to free them from Hamas's control.

I think it runs a little bit deeper than just making Hamas go away.
There are other problems too. You realise that, don't you?

Hamas is simply a symptom of the underlying causes.
Until the causes are addressed, the symptoms will keep on reappearing.

Unfortunately, the underlying cause seems to be a hatred of Jews; the Palestinians have a long history of leaders who will not tolerate a Jewish State.

They all looked pretty well fed when they were dancing and cheering over the coffins of two small Israeli children who they'd strangled with their bare hands.

I did find that troubling after all the stories of starvation we've seen. Either the food shortages aren't that bad, or the Hamas faithful get their fill and leave the rest to starve.

Those do seem to be the options. Looking at what is available (potentially just for some), it doesn’t seem to be what you would expect for a population in near famine conditions. If you’re sitting down to an excess of food knowing that people near you are starving, then you are not a good person. Gaza is smaller than NYC, everyone has phones, this has been going on for 16 months, how can people not be aware of starvation and go and share some of their food?

A pp said it was like showing a picture showing someone torn a piece of bread and saying “Look! They have food” or likening it to private medicine negating the problems on the NHS. It’s neither. People have a lot more than a piece of bread. How food/aid is distributed doesn’t negate the fact that it has got into Gaza.

I caveat all of that with of course I don’t think Palestinians shouldn’t have lots of food and possessions, civilian deaths are bad, the war needs to end. Those saying “Of course Hamas is the problem” are still blaming Israel. You can’t say Hamas is a reaction to the problem (ie Israel) and if you don’t get rid of the problem (ie Israel) then it’s going to keep happening as that doesn’t solve anything. Just come out and say you think Israel should be removed from the planet, at least you’d be honest. Getting rid of Hamas is the first step. A massive deradicalisation then needs to happen to stop the starting point being wiping out Jews.

Hamas are taking all the aid trucks and 'distributing' it. Keeping civilians hungry and charging them black market prices so they can keep the money. Heaven only knows how the average Palestinian in Gaza pays for anything.