When is a terrorist a rebel ?

[mouthpipette]

Just that really.

Lots of different connotations for each word, so it makes a difference which is used.

I was merely pointing out that it isn't always black and white when it came to the French resistance. You took it as I was applying to Hamas and ran with it.
Your choice.
A group that entered another country to slaughter, rape, torture, kidnap and take dead bodies as trophies whilst shouting Allah akbar and filming their joy.
This applies to the IDF too, without the Allahu Akbar.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/idf-sexual-abuse-palestine-gaza-b2498888.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/08/26/israel-palestinian-healthcare-workers-tortured
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-statement-killing-and-arbitrary-detention-health-workers-gaza
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/washington-post-highlights-thousands-of-clips-by-idf-troops-showing-apparent-violations-of-international-law/ar-AA1vcyIa?ocid=BingNewsSerp

It's a very layered question. I do agree that history can redefine the terrorists. Does the advantage of hindsight change opinions. Nelson Mandela is obviously the prime case here

Also when a government behaves in a way that is not "good" and sometimes with the same crimes as the terrorists can terrorism be a legitimate fight back?At what point does it change from rebels with ideals to just cruelty and violence? Is it power, greed or desperation?

And if there were no rebels could governments just behave any way they want without repercussions?

I have no answers just questions..

We should and do celebrate them.

Using them to suggest some terrorists might be viewed differently is not a good comparison.

Mandela is not a good example. The ANC's campaign of sabotage was designed carefully to avoid civilian casualties and they didn't operate primarily according to terrorist norms even though there was violence. And the apartheid regime was grotesque systematic racism ie the whole structure of the state was built on the denial of the human rights of the majority of the population.

So now we celebrate terrorists ? These rebels are proscribed terrorists by UN and many countries (see my previous post from Today). From what I’ve read in the last year in this board celebrating terrorism in this country can get you into trouble.

from wiki

As of 2021, HTS is considered the most powerful military faction within the Syrian opposition.[65] It is considered a terrorist group by the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, European Union and some other countries.

I thought it was pretty obvious the OP was referring to the Syrian rebels.

All the coverage I am seeing is celebrating the liberation of Syrians ftom a brutal dictatorship. There is much nervousness about what happens next, because of the nature & links of HTS, but its right that there is hope for the spirit of the Syrian people. The 'rebels' are a very mixed group & there has been mass public participation in this last phase & the collapse of the state.

This discussion is not really reflecting what is happening in Syria.

My worry is that Syrian government has been replaced by a group that can be as dangerous as the Syrian government (and that those that had freed this country are terrorists as per UK) so I , personally, can’t celebrate this and would encourage anyone not to celebrate it as they’d be celebrating terrorism.

also, agreeing with OP the double face of the press calling them rebels when they’re terrorists as per UK government

Generally you don’t use the word terrorist if you support the cause..

Well I will listen to the Syrian people and celebrate with them.

Would this apply as well to other citizens? Can I listen to Gazans and celebrate with those that cheered hamas? Or is that not the same?

ps. No I’m not celebrating hamas. However, I like the OP, are wondering why we celebrate terrorism in one way when we shouldn’t

You can do what you like.

The ‘rebels’ HTS are Al - Qaeda and the vast majority of Syrians are Sunni.
Syria will be another Islamic state country that strips women of all their rights, forces them into burka and subjugates them to the status of men’s ’pets’ to be treated like animals at the whim of men all in the name of the delightful religion that no one must ever criticize as that’s Islamophobic.

I think relief Assad is gone but concern for what's coming next is what I'm seeing from the coverage and interviews with Syrians. I hope whatever happens will bring peace and security and no further death torture oppression.

Very cautious reactions from worldwide leaders with Russia predicting a brutal civil war.

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/world-reaction-end-assad-rule-syria-2024-12-08/

I am a freedom fighter

You are a rebel

They are terrorists

No room for equivocation on Hamas. Definitely terrorists.

With these threads and posts I'm wondering if pp think it's not the case

I am French and my family was directly impacted by the Nazi occupation. My parents grew up under that regime. My grandfather was arrested by the Gestapo. my great uncle was sent to a forced labour camp and my great aunt was tortured and sent to Auschwitz. She always said that, whilst resisting was necessary, it involved putting her loved ones, her neighbours, her friends and so on at a huge risk of death and she felt immense guilt at hearing the terrible reprisals from the Germans on the population after a successful operation.
She recognized that it wasn't black and white as she told me numerous times.
I trust her judgement more than anyone on this thread.
She was 18 when she became part of the resistance.

Good grief, try reading before responding.

This is what I quoted and agreed with "Yes, we should celebrate those who risked their lives to resist the Nazi occupation of France. I never thought I would have to actually say this.".

What on earth are you on about. The people resisting the Nazi in France were never terrorists or described as such.

Sometimes posters on this thread need to read what is being quoted and agreed with!

I'm very sorry your family went through that horrific experience. I just don't understand why you think resistance could ever be any different. There does seem to be a sense on these threads that there is some sort of perfect war. War is hell. It puts intolerable strain on the people involved where individual people have to make dreadful choices in what you might call the grey areas and political & military leaders have to sacrifice people and what you might call moral norms for the greater good or the overall strategic objective . That doesn't alter the fact that resistance to the Nazis is about as just a cause as you could find.

This. But we are very blind to what is happening as maybe the west can’t really comprehend the real consequences or maybe women’s lives are not worth it.

I am heart broken for the women in Afghanistan - they will literally have no health care. They are going to die.

Yet for some reason we turn a blind eye to it.

You are celebrating with members of Al Qaeda. the Islamist state and their affiliates? If so you shouldn't object when Lebanese people celebrate with Hezbollah or Gazans with Hamas.

No, Im celebrating with the Syrian people who have been released from a brutal dictatorship.

The people saying, ' you see its ok for us to support Hamas and Hezbollah because of what is happening in Syria' is not the gotcha you think it is.

I didn't say it could be different. I am immensely proud of what the Resistants achieved but, as my aunt said, it came at a huge price.

I thought the argument was that not all Gazans supported hamas but there was a certain degree of fear of someone who would kill you if you looked at them in a funny way.

I imagine many Syrians don't know the nature of their new 'leaders', but they're armed and dangerous (as was Assad's regime).