Professor Bartov: "This is a genocidal plan"

[Scirocco]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/06/we-are-witnessing-the-final-stage-of-genocide-in-gaza

Professor Bartov previously considered there to be genocidal intent but that actions had not crossed the threshold into genocide. He has amended his opinion.

Opinion piece in the Guardian, including links to his reports.

Apologists for what is happening will shrug their shoulders and say: this is what happens in war. It’s tragic, but it’s war; innocent people die all the time. But, here’s the thing, wars have rules. They have limits. The scale of destruction in Gaza strongly suggests that this is no longer war by any normal standards.
This

Rafah was a grim milestone. But the very last stage of this genocide, Bartov says, is happening right now in Jabalia in north Gaza, where over 1,000 people have been killed in the last three weeks. What’s happening in north Gaza should not be considered – as it often seems to be in the media – as just more bombing. Rather, Bartov notes, it is a genocidal campaign clearly based on The General’s Plan.
This is terrifying

The IDF are not even hiding it anymore, it's a genocide that is open for all to see!

Like other conflicts other news about what is happening in their own countries is more important to individuals than a war a long way a way. I mean it's not like the bigger killings of people in Darfur, Yeman etc dominated the news either when they happened, is it. There were hundreds if thousands killed in those genocides and didn't get much air time either. Gaza does tend to get lots of news coverage

Ukraine barely makes the news now. Spain is dominated with floods, the US with the election, the UK with budget etc, each country has news that takes precedence.

I just read this article about how Israel are not going to allow people back to their homes in Northern Gaza and how rights groups and aid agencies say Israel despite denial are clearly carrying out 'the generals plan'. It's really scary stuff.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/06/palestinians-will-not-be-allowed-to-return-to-homes-in-northern-gaza-says-idf

So, your point is what? That the world is awful? Yeah, those of us with loved ones affected by that awfulness are very aware of that.

Just as people care about things happening to their loved ones in relation to domestic politics and events, people care about their loved ones being bombed, burned alive, tortured, raped, forcibly displaced and more, wherever it is happening in the world. For some of us, those loved ones are or were in Palestine, so we're going to talk about Palestine.

If you don't want to talk or read about things to do with our loved ones and other people in Palestine suffering, you are free to choose not to read threads about it. If you choose, you can even hide entire boards from view so you don't have to see it at all.

If you have loved ones affected by other conflicts and disasters around the world, I'm sure if you want to post a thread about their circumstances or your own distress, or the opinions of academics/politicians/journalists/aid organisations/etc , that people will offer support and compassion.

Professor Bartov's Wikipedia profile: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omer_Bartov

Thanks for posting. It's increasingly disturbing to see people continue to defend Israel's genocidal actions. I'll never get over it. I can't believe people can still be taken in by the same tactics around dehumanisation leading to the justification of genocide over and over again.

https://x.com/guardiannews/status/1854247768354922856?t=-7uiK3YcRtU_8ThRLGxS9Q&s=19

They're beginning to admit it.

How can there be a genocide when Gaza's population is growing?

Would Israel offer polio vaccines to people in a genocide?

At least try to understand what words mean when you use them.

I think Professor Bartov might know what the word means.

I was just typing out the same. Random poster insinuating a professor of Holocaust and genocide studies doesn't know what genocide means but she does

You missed my point.

Someone asked why its not talked about more. I was merely giving reasons.

Propaganda is an important feature of any genocide.

The population of Gaza is being brutalised, murdered, starved. You can ignore that if you wish but it's happening.

Israel are so kind halting the bombing to allow for the vaccination of Gazan children. Except when they go back on their word and attack the children and healthcare workers involved of course.

You do realise why they allow vaccinations?
There's a risk of the diseases spreading into Israel's own territory. A small risk, but it exists.

If they were caring in any human way, or if they gave a damn about the international law, we would not have had the current situation and this conversation would not be happening.

Whole family lines are being erased is genocide. That's everyone killed from all generations still alive.

Secondly, Israel isn't providing the polio vaccinations...in fact they've hindered the vaccinations with all their violence and the campaign is now complete with approx 7000-10,000 children unable to be vaccinated because they're trapped in the north where they can't access them because Israel doesn't care about killing healthcare workers while they're trying to vaccinated children.

I'd interested to know how you know that the population of Gaza is growing right now? That article says that the death toll of the past year is anywhere between about 50,000 and 100s of 1000s. It talks about how they resorted to weighing out parts of people to try and figure out how many people have died. How many live births have there been in the past year? There is pretty much no healthcare in Northern Gaza how is the birth rate being tracked, are people still able to register all births?

You must know this information to be able to state with such certainty that the population is growing so I would love to see the numbers you are working with and your sources?