7 October

[LetThereBeLove]

From a detailed article by Allison Pearson in today's Telegraph, the testimony of the mother of a hostage:
Like many people I speak to during my days in Israel, Meirav is keen to stress that Hamas and their Iranian paymasters are a threat to the UK and to the entire free world. “What people don’t understand is that it’s not about Israel. It’s not antisemitism. And I would like us to stop talking about antisemitism. They didn’t come to kill us because we are Jews, because they murdered, butchered, raped Bedouin women, Christian women. People said, ‘I’m a Muslim’ and they killed them too. They came to kill whatever represents freedom. Sorry, this is about anti-freedom, anti-human, everything that humanity represents, they are against it. They are also anti-Palestinians, anti-Gaza people. But what they did to those young women, they are outside the human race. They are evil, not just to kill, but to delight in obliterating. Our aim is to live. We cherish life, and they cherish death, that’s the difference.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/05/oct-7-israel-survivors-stories-state-of-the-nation/

That was a hard read.

What nonsense.
Nobody cherishes death. It’s just that some of us are fortunate enough to be born on the right side of the border, where humans have rights and means, and the others are born into an open air prison where they have no rights, are seen as rats, and given no hope for the future.

Come off it with this nonsense propaganda.

And while we’re at it, Lebanon has always been famous for its people’s love of life, joie de vivre, and ability to co-exist as 17 distinct religious communities, absorbing minorities (including Jews) from all over the middle east into its melting pot.
And look what Israel has done there in just 2 weeks: killing, making 1million people refugees, etc. LOL. Now you want to tell people it’s because they all love death??? Ha.

AhaHa And you missed the complete point, that it is freedom for all that is at stake. Terrorists like Hamas, Hezbollah etc do not cherish life or freedom for everyone.

What nonsense

I was at school with Lebanese families who had to flee in the 70s

We used to jokingly say that messy places looked like Beirut

So don't pretend everything was rosy until a couple of weeks ago

And how dare you minimise the pain felt by families of those who were abducted by savages last year, by calling it nonsense. How dare you

Yes, 'Beirut' was shorthand for any sort of chaos in the 70s, which was a tragedy because it had been a shorthand for elegance and a pretty dynamic multi cultural society with a thriving economy. My parents travelled a lot across Africa in the 70s and Lebanese businesses and restaurants were the go-to places. What changed? Civil war triggered by the PLO moving in basically, stirring up sectarian tension within Lebanon and using Lebanon as a base to attack Israel from.

Thank you for the article. What was done by hamas quickly lost headlines as marches for Palestine took over.

Interesting this "In Belsize Park, north London, a man recently waved a placard saying: “I HEART 7 October.” He was not arrested."

Freedom for all is what is needed. That will not happen until Hamas, Hezbollah, The Houthis et al are gone.

If Israel were fighting this war without breaking so many laws, there would be no protests, or outrage and the support for Israel’s actions to uproot Hamas would likely be unequivocal.

You must know this is untrue. The celebrations of 7 October started immediately here, in other countries & of course in Gaza. Before Israel made any sort of response. I think it was day after I saw someone celebrating & waving a Palestinian flag. Antisemitic attacks jumped in this country almost immediately. People in this country attacked Jewish people who were shocked and traumatised in the days following the attack.

This again.

Very powerful.
Agreed the celebrations from many on October 7th were unbelievable they came out with no shame to celebrate those murdering thugs from Gaza.
It's those people who want to eradicate any freedom or rights for women and children across the world.

Speak to any Iranian or Lebanese people in the diaspora and they will tell you the reality of living in such places and why they had to leave.

It would be great if there was more self awareness all around. When it comes to Palestinians Israel are anti freedom and anti humanity too. Nobody that is pro freedom and humanity operates apartheid and denies people basic human rights, the two are completely incompatible unless of course you don't regard Palestinians as people.

Some people can perhaps separate the two, how Israel treats their own citizens vs how they treat others, others can't. For me it's a bit like when you go on a date and the guy seems great, he treats you well, he is funny, kind and entertaining then he turns around and treats the waiter like shit. I could never ignore him treating the waiter like shit because I know he will be kind to me. Others seem to be able to compartmentalise more.

Thank you for the article. What was done by hamas quickly lost headlines as marches for Palestine took over.

I would also say what was done by Hamas was quickly lost as what was done by Israel took over. There was an interesting article someone posted on another thread that mentioned how the Whitehouse were warned just days after Oct 7 that Israels plans were not compatible with International Law and were going to lead to a humanitarian catastrophe. It's such a pity that those warnings weren't heeded for everyone's sake.

I can't comment on the article as a whole because it is locked, just the quote posted here.

I have a friend who is a Christian Lebanese with PTSD, I’d agree Lebanese have an amazing culture. The tensions between groups are often just bubbling away and tip out into outright violence at intervals.

Yes the Jewish people

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Lebanon#:~:text=The%20Lebanese%20Civil%20War%2C%20which%20started%20in%201975%2C%20was%20much,restrict%20their%20freedom%20to%20emigrate.

This is true but seems to have been forgotten . I saw people celebrating in my area the day after October 7th . There were numerous accounts of hostage posters being ripped down .

What I struggle with here is that the war wasn’t declared on the 7th. On the 7th the only thing that happened was the worst terrorist attack that Israel has ever suffered, murder, rape, torture oh and sexualised torture etc. I saw a video of a Hamas member hack a thai man to death and then a room full of thai workers who had been massacred, the picture of the remains of a child who had been bound to an adult and set on fire. Just so many things. it was disgusting and barbaric.

These marches should be on the 8th if they want them, thats when was was declared. It’s making a mockery of Israeli/Jewish and everyone else affected grief. It’s genuinely foul to me. It has nothing to do with civilians it’s blatant support for Hamas.

And it’s impossible to have a thread discussing October 7th and the hostages - even on the anniversary of the atrocities- without certain posters trying to turn the conversation to something else .

( Apologies I’d like to delete the last post as I know it will be used to rehash old arguments that don’t go anywhere)

Apologies if my post was one that made you feel that way. I was just responding to the quote posted in the OP. I didn't realise it wasn't like other threads and a discussion of the OP. The posts about marches didn't make it seem like solely a discussion of the terrorist attack on Oct 7.I'll bow out now anyway and leave you to it.

@LetThereBeLove
Thank you for posting your link to the distressing Telegraph article, there are many many people already minimising what happened on 7 October 2023. So much bravery, I was particularly moved by the woman who helped sort out the bodies after the attack and also the poor mother of a hostage. I think a special place in hell should be reserved for all the pro Palestinian supporters and marchers and "celebrities" who are celebrating the anniversary as if it were something wonderful.
There is a lot of bandwagon jumping by people who don't have the emotional intelligence to read the historical facts behind Israel/Gaza and the bigger picture of Palestine Iran and Iraq's intentions towards the Western world.

The news reports coming out of non western outlets just after the attacks were that Hamas had said it had taken hostages but not committed the atrocities, and this was the Palestinian stance at the time I think (and still is). Obviously anyone celebrating atrocities anywhere is morally repugnant, which is a different point.

Not sure what your point is but if I knew what had happened so did all the people celebrating, regardless of what the Hamas official line was.

I am not sure what you mean by all the people celebrating. I didn't see that at all at the time. I saw shock.

There are Hamas vidéos taken on 7 October where Gazans were celebrating the massacres and the taking of live hostages as well as bodies of dead ones.

https://www.memri.org/tv/palestinians-gaza-west-bank-celebrate-october-seven-massacre-hand-out-sweets-fire-guns