Support for Palestine at Glastonbury

[Finallyloggedin]

Daman Albarn

https://x.com/damonunofficial/status/1806744107181642172?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

The recently rescued hostages were kept in civilian homes.

This is an urban conflict zone, so the combat zones and zones directly adjacent will all have evacuated civilian homes within them. IDF and Hamas are using civilian homes in these areas as outposts, places for combatants to shelter, places to mount attacks and secure perimeters. Keeping the hostages in vacated civilian homes outside any declared safe zone is not a violation of the rules of war. Especially since, unlike Israel, Hamas cannot remove any POWs or hostages from the Gaza Strip.

The rescued hostages were not held in the then IDF declared civilian evacuation safe zone (Al-Malawsi) or an internationally recognised safe zone like a UN or IRCS building/school, hospital/medical facility or a place of worship.

In addition, the Geneva Convention requires that all parties remove POWs or civilian captives(hostages) from active combat areas and keep them from harm as much as possible from ongoing combat operations. This means keeping them behind front lines or away from active combat zones while not imprisoning them within any declared evacuation or safe zone for civilians.

The use of a vacated civilian home in a conflict zone is not a get out of jail free card to dismiss 270 dead civilians and 3 dead hostages to rescue 4 other hostages. Whether this was a disporportionate death toll for the mission and a war crime by Israel will most likely be decided by the ICC and ICJ in due course.

Perhaps the IDF is working to minimise civilian casualties, in the circumstances?

There is no question that IDF is trying to minimise civilian casualties, the million dollar question is are they trying hard enough? Do the efforts match their capabilities or are the efforts so small as to be criminally negligent?

The international laws and justice system hold those with higher technology and military capabilities to a higher standard in regards to minimising civilian deaths. For example, a warring party that does have the capability to laser guide bombs is allowed less latitude when it comes to misfires that unintentionally kill civilians than a warring party that can only aim a rocket east before lighting a fuse. A warring party that can see “UN” emblazoned on the roofs of buildings before pushing the button to do an airstrike is held to a higher standard than a warring party with no air force and no capability to see a target from the air.

So the courts will consider all the evidence in making their determination as to whether the IDF tried enough or were negligent and caused more civilian deaths than they could and should have.

There is no question that IDF is trying to minimise civilian casualties

There's only evidence to assert the opposite. In fact the IDF have been accused of war crimes. I've read reports of the IDF shooting people for approaching food trucks and killing kids for throwing stones.

Editing to add that the only time a POW or hostage can be taken to a hospital/medical facilit is when they need or are receiving medical care. The Geneva convention requires that POWs and hostages be given adequate medical care when/as needed. Holding civilians hostage is a war crime, but it’s the kind of crime where you end up committing more crimes in addition to keeping a hostage if you also keep them too close to combat, refuse medical care, refuse food/water, refuse dignity, rape/torture. Only POWs (enemy armed forces members) are legal hostages.

@cupcaske123 read the article I posted. There is plenty of evidence that the IDF is working to reduce civilian casualties.

Yes the IDF have been accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Some of these will likely be confirmed in the courts.

But there is a larger picture to consider and buried in the news are bits and pieces of Israel evacuating civilians for medical treatment abroad, of turning on water and power, of letting some aid in, of attending negotiations, of declaring evacuations - as I say these are certainly efforts to minimise civilian deaths, the question is has it been and will it be enough effort? Or has Israel fallen far short of the efforts they could and should have done?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-food-truck-deaths-israel-wwk-intl/index.html

Individual events may be war crimes. The occurrence of war crimes doesn’t mean there have been zero efforts by IDF command and Israeli political leadership to prevent these crimes.

Did you read the article yourself? It proves the opposite of the point you're trying to make.

It basically says that the IDF ticked a few boxes to make it look like they are trying to mitigate harm to civilians but their "efforts" are clearly not protecting civilians and even by using a ridiculously conservative estimate of the civilian casualties (because the IDF don't provide credible data) they're unacceptably high.

Gestures aren't enough.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv22g81djdyo.amp

Yes the article is saying IDF is not doing enough. It makes a good argument that IDF are not doing all they could and should do to minimise civilian deaths.

So the statement IDF is trying to minimise civilian casualties is partially true in that they could do worse, but it doesn’t address the real question which is have they and are they doing enough?

Many world wide experts have said it appears that the IDF are not doing nearly enough and are doing so little, it may be criminally low.

Absolute clap-trap.

IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari, said forces would turn Gaza into a "city of tents" and that Israel's "emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy" in the bombardment of Gaza.

Ariel Kallner, a Knesset member for Likud, said, "Right now, one goal: Nakba. A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948"

Amichay Eliyahu, a cabinet minister, and Tally Gotliv, a Likud parliament member, have both called for Israel to use nuclear weapons on Gaza, with Gotliv stating: "It's time for a doomsday weapon. Not flattening a neighborhood. Crushing and flattening Gaza."

Galit Distel-Atbaryan, Knesset member for Likud posted on X that Israelis should focus on "Erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth" and forcing the Gazans either into Egypt or to the death. It was such statements that led to Raz Segal's (Israeli historian and professor) characterization of Israel's conduct in the 2023 war in Gaza as a "textbook case of genocide", stating to Vox - “If this is not special intent to destroy, I don't know what is."

Are the IDF making efforts to reduce civilian casualties?

Unequivocally, yes.

Are they reaching the ‘gold standard’? No.

It is a strange war in which one side must bear responsibility for all casualties on both sides. What is Hamas doing to reduce civilian casualties? Among its own population? This is a serious question. What are they doing and what have they done?

One side is trapped like ducks in a barrel.

The other has dropped 70,000 bombs, more than was dropped on London, Dresden and Hamburg combined during WWII.

There is nowhere to run.

"Targeted"

This sums up the "support" for Palestine nicely .

Certainly looks supportive to me.

How about answering the question? What is Hamas doing and what have they done to minimise civilian casualties?

They know the terrain they are in and the military capabilities of their opponent, so how have they worked to protect civilians?

I suppose when your target is "everything", it's pretty hard to miss.

No need to use "". I'm unequivocal about my support for Palestinians.

It didn't start on Oct 7.

@Sussurations

Like what?

When the place looks like Hiroshima, when the IDF bomb refugee camps, when there are no safe zones.

Yes for anti -Semitism and the Hamas terrorist attack.Shame on them for deliberately targetting a music festival.

They certainly look supportive of Palestine.

You made up the rest.

Seeing the Palestinian flags flying and hearing the support for innocent people being murdered in their thousands, it gives me hope that the world does contain people who care.

The people whose hearts are hard enough that they cannot care about innocent people being killed, because those people belong to the 'wrong' nationality or ethnicity, or worse, the people who find amusement or satisfaction in the deaths of those people... Well, there's not much point in trying to get them to care.

I guess it is difficult to defend civilians against 2,000 pounds bombs being dropped in their hundreds since this began.
Israeli military campaign in Gaza among deadliest in history, experts say | AP News
Or against white phosphorus bombs
Human Rights Watch says Israel used white phosphorus in Gaza, Lebanon | Reuters
Or against the other means of deliberately killing the population, such as starvation.
Unless Israel changes course, it could be legally culpable for mass starvation | Alex de Waal | The Guardian
Gaza is 365km 2. All the above are happening in a very small area and where 2.1 millions live.
I hope this has answered your questions. Of course, no one, unless in Gaza, can definitively say what Hamas are doing to minimise casualties. It's a shame that the Israeli government has banned any neutral observers or the international press to witness what is happening.