Horrors of the Oct 7 'Death Shelter': Shocking video shows Hamas firing into a bunker where dozens of NOVA revellers were hiding

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Horrors of the Oct 7 'Death Shelter': Shocking video shows Hamas firing into a bunker where dozens of NOVA revellers were hiding - before kidnapping three including US man with hand severed by a grenade blast

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13563639/October-7-Death-Shelter-video-hostages-Nova-festival.html

Its unbearable, i don't know how the families caught up in this monstrous tragedy bear the pain.

They had no way of escape, no defence except their brave selves, and no chance of survival for the majority. October 7 was so barbaric.

It's an unbearable scenario, even among the general horrors of October 7 and the war. I happen to know family members of two people who were in that shelter. One was killed and one survived injured, and is thankfully recovering, at least from the physical injury. There is a brave and horrific witness account from another survivor here:

https://www.october7.org/post/our-friends-who-we-laughed-with-just-a-few-moments-before-were-now-lying-next-to-us-dead

It's horrific, I honestly think it's the worst terrorist attack in history, worse even than 9/11 due to the way they were murdered and the rapes then butchering of the girls bodies is just so so awful.

Yes, I completely agree with you. There was something about the sadism and the sheer celebratory nature of the atrocities committed that somehow puts this on another level.

Thank you for sharing.

What happened was absolutely horrific, and why it was so horrific is completely beyond my understanding.

I know this is a very sensitive subject and this might not come across the right way, so please bear with me.

I have recently been very interested in the work of an Israeli psychologist called Daniel Kahneman, as so much of what he writes speaks to me and this situation. He unfortunately recently passed away, but he is well respected and spent a good portion of his life researching issues in rationality.

One of the biases he discovered, and even himself relates to the risk of terrorist attacks, is called the Availability heuristic. He talks about how bad we are at estimating risk, and how we have a tendency to over estimate the risk of anything that easily comes to mind, and that what can make something more easily come to mind can be due to factors such as emotional intensity and the frequency with which we see it, such as in the media. He also talks about how the media feeds this fear, and how people’s appetite for more information perpetuates the media to provide this, and how this can end up influencing policy.

I am not trying to suggest that the risk
of terrorism in Israel isn’t real, or that there shouldn’t have been some sort of response, or trying to offend anyone here. What I am trying to say is that perhaps people’s perceptions of how likely something of this nature could happen again, and how scared they (understandably) feel, is influenced by the horrific nature and scale of the event, and that the actual risk might be different.

I’m also not trying to suggest that people shouldn’t discuss this, it is a lot to process and come to terms with.

What I am trying to say, is that I am worried that fear and an originally over estimated level of risk has driven a response that I see leading to more risk, and that I am worried about the impact this event has had on the level of fear within Israel, and the psychological impact of that, in addition to the real and unacceptable level of damage that was initially caused.

I have tried my best to word this in a way which doesn’t offend.

Quite extraordinary comment @PeasfullPerson

The very personal and up-close nature of these acts of terrorism was an added level of horror, I think. And the availability of so much video and audio footage from the attacks means people can see what it was like, in a way that wasn't really possible with attacks like 9/11 when we didn't have the same technology available. Before, people weren't necessarily confronted with the true horror of terrorist attacks, but now we can see it and see how the innocent people caught up in these atrocities are just like us and our loved ones.

@PeasfullPerson

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/hamas-october-7-attack-repeat-israel-annihilated-ghazi-hamad/

'We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated, says Hamas official Ghazi Hamad'

You routinely believe what Hamas says, except when it's inconvenient?

Minimizing much? I wonder why...

@DuskyBlueDepartingLight while this is a scary, and quite frankly disgusting comment, how likely do you believe it is, that the events of Oct 7th are continually repeated by Hamas until Israel is annihilated?

Its not a 'comment' its a statement of intent. 'Disgusting' doesn't cover it.

@PeasfullPerson I think even if it were never to happen again, knowing that the perpetrators were protected and unrepentant, that many people support the barbarity of October 7th, that the perpetrators are still talking enthusiastically about repeating it-

that makes Israel’s response rational. Israel isn’t doing this because they think it will happen again if they don’t.

and also, if they don’t respond that means respectfully I think it will happen again. What leads you to think Hamas has reformed and will protest in acceptable fashion in future? I see no sign of that.

Exactly. Keeping to the point of the thread: Israel's response to such attacks and, crucially, the stated aims of their enemies, is entirely rational. Conscription is part of the strategy to keep her safe from further attacks. The idea that the risk is overstated is not supported by the evidence.

There is no evidence to suggest that the response will decrease the risk of attacks, and actually it has led to an increase in conflict on the Northern border, of which the impact could be much bigger.

It’s also created even worse conditions for Gaza, the kind of conditions that breed grievances against Israel.

The main point of my previous comment is that actually you have a much higher risk of dying from something other than a terror attack, but because it is so horrific and unusual, people over estimate the risk.

The top ten causes of death for Israel are listed here. Even accounting for October 7th, people are more likely to die from a road traffic accident.

https://data.who.int/countries/376

You think you are being clever but you really aren't. If you can't see that I don't think there is anything any of us can do for you.

What does that to have with the price of tea in China?

Some savage kills my neighbour and mutilates their bodies. Breaks into my house and kills my dog. I know they are still at large.

Would you tell me I’m perfectly safe and am at greater risk crossing the road than staying home?

I’m sorry but people are not logic machines. We may know better than to track down and beat up the man who molested our daughter, but that doesn’t mean I won’t. And if his mum and aunts stand in front of him protecting him, then I will go through them.

Don’t you stand there claiming the reaction is inappropriate because the average Israeli is more likely to be killed in a road accident.

@SharonEllis you cannot reason with this type of thinking .

Some real implied Israel blaming here .

What about little children?

I think you should stop now.

Thanks for posting this OP, I don’t want to feed any trolls, only to express agreement with PP who have pointed out why Oct 7 is one of the worst terrorist attacks ever. And then the culprits hide behind their own people and hope to win the PR war. Am Yisrael Chai.

They may be more likely to die in a RTA but they will not be butchered, raped or tortured.

Having read your posts your moniker is inappropriate. You may think you are a peaceful person but you don't come over as such.

And the person driving the car in an accident was not motivated by hate and did not intend to terrify. October 7 was a deliberate act of terror. As that poster of course knows.

This happened. This was abhorrent. Nothing justifies the actions of Hamas.

The many atrocities that happened that day were devastating. It has nothing to do with the aftermath. October 7 was standalone awful; absolutely depraved behaviour to defenceless Israelis.

Three of the survivors of that shelter massacre were taken to Gaza, one with his arm literally blown off. He was still alive a few weeks ago. Who can say now?

Anyone with a connection to a hostage, after seeing what happened that day, must be nearly mad with grief and perpetual thoughts of what their loved one is going through. It is horrendous.

We saw the worst of humanity that day and Israel should be allowed to have their sorrow and what happened to them recognised without it being implied they are overreacting and paranoid.