The "eyes on the border"

[AdamRyan]

Really interesting report on the BBC today about how the female surveillance officers could see Hamas preparing for the attacks but the warnings went unheard.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

Was it sexism towards these officers and minimisation of what they said? Was like September 11th and the IDF had a blindspot that meant they couldn't conceive this could happen despite having the Hamas blueprint and these intelligence reports? Was it just a huge intelligence failure and their reports ignored?

I really feel for the soldiers and their families, they've been failed when they were taking their job seriously

If I was into conspiracy theories, I might think that it was deliberately overlooked by the Israeli government.

Why?

Because a lot of people are prepared to see the worst in Israel, even the worst loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust?

I don't believe in conspiracy theories but even I wondered the same thing when I read that article.

As OP suggests, it may well have been a blind spot of disbelief that such an event could happen, but it's dodgy as hell that the IDF has such high levels of surveillance and reporting but then doesn't interpret it accurately.

It just reminds me so much of the 9/11 scenario, where in hindsight all the intelligence was there but the people looking at it just couldn't "see" it.

I think its more likely to be the IDF believed their borders were not breachable, than they let it happen. And a touch of complacency too.

Those poor women though and it would be so rage-inducing to be raising the alarm for months and nothing happened

I don't believe that the Israeli government/IDF would disregard such red flags of an imminent attack so easily. After all, and rightly so, any government has a duty to keep their citizens safe, even more so the Israeli government when Hamas has stated their murderous intentions towards the Jewish people.

I am not prepared to see the worst in the Israeli government. Their combined words and actions for the last 100 days speak for themselves.

Israel ignored the information from its own surveillance officers, warnings from Egypt and watched whilst Hamas trained for the attack and rather than think they could prevent another attack by addressing those failures they decided that the only course if action was to destroy Gaza. An action which is now, quite predictable, making the whole world less safe. Slow fucking hand clap for the warmongers.

When the world is run by such incredibly stupid people we are all doomed.

The failure was to put exclusively, very young women (18- 20 year olds) with no military experience there. It almost looks like ' we've got to occupy them somehow so give them a meaningless task'. The chain of command looks like it had never taken this system seriously.

Maybe arrogance, maybe complacency. Probably both.
Doubtless the current Israeli regime will want to cover up failures of those 'asleep at the wheel' who ignored the subtle and not so subtle signs. Many of those young women were first to die.

The failure was to put exclusively, very young women (18- 20 year olds) with no military experience there. It almost looks like ' we've got to occupy them somehow so give them a meaningless task'. The chain of command looks like it had never taken this system seriously.

Yes, this is where there is a feminist angle. Those women were proud to be there, proud to be doing their job and took it seriously. But I agree with you, the task doesn't appear to have been taken seriously.

It reminds me of some of the failures that led to the deaths of SOE operatives in WW2, because the male commanders had a dismissive attitude to female soldiers.

If I was of a cynical disposition, I would say the warnings were deliberately ignored to allow a minor Hamas incursion leading to a massive Israeli retaliation on Gaza for as long as possible (until reined in by Western governments).
Just listen to remarks made by senior Israeli government officials.
Unfortunately the initial Hamas attack was better planned, coordinated and executed than the Israelis gave them credit for.
But then, that is a very cynical point of view.

I've read about this before and been quite perplexed as to why this intelligence was ignored

My only explanation is that it didn't match with the high tech surveillance - the listening devices along the fence/drones etc and that human intelligence was given less weight

But really don't know as it doesn't make much sense

I suppose people will see whatever fits their beliefs, and in this case they didn’t believe in the capabilities of these women. Perhaps it was also comforting to believe that the occupation was successful and something like this could never happen.

Ego, systematic organisational failures, internal politics, sexism… many more I am sure, until all the holes that existed all along eventually lined up.

Those poor ladies.

Its easy to say after an tragedy that signs were ignored. Its entirely likely that various signs of different magnitude have been witnessed and reported for years but with no attack until now. Maybe its just extremely difficult to maintain highest threat alert all the time. Maybe people tried their best in the circumstances.

But its more fun to say it was a big misogynistic conspiracy to kill women. Perhaps the fact that they employed female soldiers in this position of responsibility, unlike many other nations, means they arent the misogynists you're looking for

@jonesysy I’m not sure anybody has said it’s a ‘big misogynistic conspiracy to kill women’, what a leap you have taken there.

Time and time again we hear of ways in which females have been let down by government organisations and our legal system. Is it so hard to imagine that sexism was a factor in this case.

@jonesysy
No one is proposing that it was a 'big misogynistic conspiracy'. How ridiculous is that? But it does seem like a useful way to employ totally inexperienced young women cheaply, with little input. Ticking the 'compulsory military service ' box. They weren't even armed so presumably hadn't had that training either.

The most optimistic view is that they were being kept away from front line action. Ironically.

Because a lot of people are prepared to see the worst in Israel,
No, i don’t think that for one minute, i genuinely want to know how could've this gone unnoticed? ive seen a female solider talk about this and she said she can’t believe it either, not even a bird can fly over the fence without them noticing it.
why was the Egyptian intel neglected too?