The Nakba of 1948

[Watermelonpower]

Hello everyone
I’m creating this thread because I feel there is not enough awareness about the Nakba of 1948 and the impact this had on the Palestinian people, community and the diaspora that was created as a result. Anyone seeking to understand current events in the Middle East needs to understand The Nakba, what it meant to Palestinians and how the consequences and generational trauma impacts Palestinians to this day. For those who are unaware, 70% of Gaza’s population are Nakba refugees/their descendants.

At the outset I would like to say this thread is about understanding and awareness. Above all, it is about the Palestinian experience and perspective. I would therefore appreciate it if people would keep this in mind and be respectful in their posting, ensuring MN Talk Guidelines are adhered to. I will be also be sharing some personal stories and
suggesting some additional resources and media for those who wish to learn more.

https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

@MercanDede that is so incredibly disturbing.

This post is clearly anti-Semitic. It states that Israeli culture is ‘stolen’ from other cultures. Middle-Eastern Jews developed and were part of Middle-Eastern culture just as much as any other ME person and when they moved to Israel it went with them. It is a well-worn anti-Semitic idea that Jews are not part of the culture they live in, but are parasites who steal from it.

Interesting. Means invader.

Don't be ridiculous. Israel also didn't exist before 1948 but noone says that the Israeli identity doesn't exist, in fact if they did say that it would be extremely antisemitic

So technically the landed didn't belong to anyone. It wasn't empty because some Turks, Jews, Arabs eked out a nomadic existence there as 'hunter gathers'.

this is the second time I’ve read it on this thread
im really curious , where did you get this image of a void land with Shepards and herds amongst ancient ruins?
where do all the cities , towns , ports , churches , monasteries , temples , mosques fit into this devoid land?

Why did every major Empire conquered and set their mark on that area?

Do you know of Yaffa ? Bethlehem ? Jericho, Nablus , Galilee , Acre ?

do you know of Zahir Omar ?

are you familiar with Yaffa citrus trade? olive oil trade , cotton trade , metal , Nablus soap?

do you know of Bir Salim plantations?
All were vital to the Ottoman Empire’s economy, and British Mandate ,

just because you hate it , doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

It's weird isn't it.
As far as I can tell, this patch of land has been inhabited and disputed since the dawn of humanity....I find it so weird that there is this sense it was "empty" given the history of the region. I also don't understand why events 3000 that happened 3000 years ago are seen by some to be more relevant to territorial disputes than the people living there today.

Also interesting to note when the Palestinian flag was incorporated. Palestinian currency, Palestinian President/prime minister etc. None of these existed before 1948?

I had read up on the Nakba as I was curious as to why it translated to the ‘great catastrophe’ or rather than something more fitting to describe the purported horrific indiscriminate slaughter and displacement of hundreds of thousands of people.

I read it was a Lebanese writer who originally described it as that because the great catastrophe (al-Nakba?) was that the Arab war of 1948 (declared the day Israel was proclaimed a Jewish state?) was lost and the Arabs who had been told to clear out/decided to leave expecting to go back after Israel had been annihilated weren’t actually able to because Israel won the war. He felt they brought the catastrophe upon themselves IIRC. This narrative seems to have changed quite a bit over time.

Yassar Arafat proclaimed May 15th as the commemoration day of the Nakba (taking the al off) in the 1980s (?) which is also the date that Israel’s was proclaimed a state funnily enough.

Just fell down a prehistory rabbit hole

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_ancient_Levant

Interesting just how many wars/expulsions/ownership of land there has been and this page only goes up to the Muslim conquest

From that page:

It was among this West Semitic-speaking milieu that Assyrian texts of the 9th century BC first mention the Arabs (Aribi), who inhabited swaths of land in the Levant and Babylonia.[84] Their presence intermingled with the Aramaeans, and they are variously mentioned in the Babylon border region, Orontes valley, Homs, Damascus, Hauran, Bekaa valley in Lebanon and Wadi Sirhan, where the Arab king Gindibu of Qedar ruled from.[78][85][84] One such example is the land of Laqē near Terqa, mentioned in a inscription by Adad-nirari II (911–891 BC), where Aramaean and Arab clans formed a confederacy.[78][84]

This is in the Iron Age. Before Judaism, Christianity or Islam. Before the Greek and Roman empires. Its barely comprehensible to me that today we are still arguing over "who owns the land" and who are "invaders".

You are correct in saying that "not all of the Palestinian people were in Gaza or West Bank when Egypt and Jordan were occupying them between 1949 and 1967. They still aren’t."

Some are now in other countries such as Syria.

I am curious to know if the the Palestinian people or their supporters taken issue about the atrocities committed by Bashir Assad? Where is the outcry and public condemnation ? Or do Palestinians only matter is they are being attacked by Israelis?

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220123-assad-regime-tortured-over-653-palestinian-refugees-to-death-since-2011-report-reveals/

whataboutery seems to be a common tactic these days.

It's a relevant point actually, I'm sorry you don't see that

It’s all true. The map partitions the region into an Arab state and a Jewish state. The map makes no mention of Israel, but does state “Palestinian Solution” on it. The text of UN resolution 181 that the map illustrates, makes no mention of Israel (it is always Jewish state) but frequently refers to Palestine throughout. See http://www.mideastweb.org/181.htm for the text of the UN resolution.

There was a Palestinian identity. It did exist.

The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jewish state.

The commission called for Jerusalem to be put under international administration. The original plan called for Beersheba to be part of Israel. That is the map of the "majority plan" shown here, drawn on the Palestine Survey map of 1946.

However, the United States State department wanted all of the Negev to be part of the Palestinian state. A compromise affected between President Truman and Chaim Weizmann gave Beersheba (Birsaba) to the Arabs, and a small strip of land near the Dead Sea was given to the Jews, as marked on the map. The UN General Assembly adopted this plan on Nov. 29, 1947 as UN Resolution (GA 181). The plan for "partition with economic union" divided the land into several cantons. Both the Jewish state and the Arab state had 3 cantons each that touched each other south of Nazareth and near Gaza. The borders of this plan are shown in the map below. This jigsaw puzzle would have been difficult to implement for friendly populations, and was impossible to implement given the hostility between Arabs and Jews. Click here for more history.

Some of these comments are mixing up the different meanings of the country being 'owned'. It would make discussion easier if people were clear which they mean when they talk of ownership being taken.

Ie
1.Governed. Which has been lots of different states over time: Roman empire, Ottoman empire, British mandate. It's accurate to say there was no state in 1948, since the British mandate finished without agreement from the resident Jews and Arabs about how the land would be partitioned. Israel declared independence into that vacuum, initially following the UN resolution boundaries. It's a bit philosophical as to whether the state of Palestine existed at that time, since the the UN adopted the plan as a resolution but the Arabs hadn't accepted it. And I'm not sure that the UN had any particular authority anyway. But either way, at that time, the new state of Israel wasn't claiming government of those bits which had been intended by the UN to make up an Arab-governed state. Of course, the war threw all that into disarray.

1. Individual property ownership. You wouldn't expect that to change when a new state government is put into place. BUT, it was made more complicated because strange though it may seem to us, land ownership wasn't always very clear, with all sorts of complications like community-managed land, long-term absentee landlords selling land to people who then wanted to actually take possession of it from the long-term tenants, and nomads. And of course, then the violence and war threw everything into disarray.

@MercanDede You are correct to say that on 29 November 1947 the UN General Assembly voted on the partition plan, adopted by 33 votes to 13 with 10 abstentions.
The Jewish side accepted the UN plan for the establishment of two states.
However what you have omitted to mention was that the Arabs rejected it and launched a war of annihilation against the Jewish state.

In 1995 another solution was proposed (Oslo Accord) but that did not come to fruition as the Prime Minister of Israel at the time, Yitzak Rabin, was assassinated by a right-wing extremist.

The Palestinians went on to reject a two-state solution again in 2000, and 2008.

One could be forgiven for thinking they want not a two-state solution but the end of Israel?

According to the head of the Palestinian Mission to the UK, Israel has always rejected a two state solution.

Now that's interesting.

https://africachinapresscentre.org/2023/10/13/5-times-in-the-past-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-state-they-want-israel-out-of-existence/

I can see that we are going way off track with this. There are definitely two sides to every story. So what one party believes is not necessarily what the other believes.

Can we get back to the original point of the thread please? Which was to discuss the Nakba.

Almost every Israeli Prime Minister since 1995 was committed to the Two-State Solution either all the time or at one point or another. Here is the list of Israeli Prime Ministers who officially supported the Two-State Solution:

• Shimon Peres (1995–1996) - PM during the Oslo peace process, firm supporter for the Two-State Solution.
• Ehud Barak (1999–2001) - held talks in 2000 and 2001
• Ariel Sharon (2001–2006) - after the Second Intifada he withdrew from the Gaza Strip in order to revive the peace process
• Ehud Olmert (2006–20009) - held talks in 2008
• Benjamin Netanyahu (2009-present) - negotiations in 2010, 2013–14, and the Trump plan in 2020.

And yes, whether you think it was sincere or not, Benjamin Netanyahu was the Prime Minister of Israel during the peace talks in 2010 and in 2013–2014, in which Israel offered the Palestinians a state as a way to resolve the conflict.

@Estersouwester Can we get back to the original point of the thread please? Which was to discuss the Nakba respectfully as the OP pointed out at the start of the thread?

At the outset I would like to say this thread is about understanding and awareness. Above all, it is about the Palestinian experience and perspective. I would therefore appreciate it if people would keep this in mind and be respectful in their posting.

Thanks for bringing the topic to us, OP. There is so much complexity to understand in this conflict.

Individual personal experiences and testimony is important to hear. It's also important to try to understand how that person's subjective experience fits into the whole.

I found this wikipedia article, which goes through the massacres in 1947 and 1948 (ie from the UN partition vote, then leading up to and during the 1948 war):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war

It's pretty devastating, with massacres (including of civilians who had surrendered) on both sides and 1% of the population on each side killed.

I didn't know that the Deir Yassin massacre was the main reason for the Arab states to attack Israel in 1948. Also interesting that the Deir Yassin massacre caused a mass flight of Palestinians in numerous areas, "partly because the actual events at Deir Yassin were greatly embellished by the media". PP have mentioned other reasons for the exodus of Palestinians, so maybe that's been over-stated.

It's strange that it was/is so prominent when there were massacres with higher death tolls and atrocities on both sides , eg the Kfar Etzion massacre of a Jewish kibbutz by combined Arab league and local Arab men and the Lydda massacre of 2 Arab towns by the IDF.

Definitely a reminder to us not to take anything as the absolute truth, and to keep seeking clear facts.

I do think it's worth reading the details of the Lydda massacre. It's really horrific, but also gives some insights into the fog of war - apparently there wasn't an official policy to expel Palestinians, but obviously that still happened.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_from_Lydda_and_Ramle

For balance, it's worth also reading the details of the Hadassah medical convoy massacre and/or the Kfar Etzion massacres (of Jewish people)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_medical_convoy_massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Watermelon, what role do you think the book “From time Immemorial “ played in denying the Nakba of 1948 ?