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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Consumer Boycotts

672 replies

Desertrose2023 · 24/12/2023 15:58

I posted the BDS list in the supporting Palestinian businesses thread and recent discussion on another thread re the backlash against Zara got me wondering how many others are participating in consumer boycotts linked to the conflict in Gaza (and the occupation in Palestine) or for different reasons.

there are a number of brands I’m boycotting usually for a mix of reasons, political, environmental and social. Interested to hear views from others.

Disclaimer: to avoid any misinterpretation or twisting of my words - I do not support any acts of violence or vandalism or boycotting based on religion/ethnicity.

all the ones on the BDS committee list

https://bdsmovement.net/

in addition to a few others (sample below)

Starbucks: overpriced shit coffee and they recently sued their union for tweeting in support/solidarity with Palestine.

Zara: I stopped buying stuff following the controversy of their head womenswear designer making disgusting anti-Palestinian comments. The reports of slave labour (Uyghurs and in Brazil) plus the recent tone deaf ad campaign was the final straw. Plus trying to be more conscious re reducing how much ‘fast fashion’ I buy anyway.

Nestle: a history of unethical corporate practices plus including ownership of an Israeli food company with production in OPT.

BDS Movement

The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.

https://bdsmovement.net/

OP posts:
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Original poster
Desertrose2023 · 24/12/2023 20:03

sailingdriving · 24/12/2023 20:01

With regards to avoiding certain products or components of products completely.... of course it is not always possible to be 100% ethical etc.

I think there's a limit to how far we can each personally take any ethical stand on doing something or not, and this reminds me of the definition of veganism:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude —as far as is possible and practicable— all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose...."

— The Vegan Society, Definition of veganism, ^www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism^

The point is not that we can do it 100% perfectly, so this may mean in this instance using software or products or components we don't want to, but it would be entirely impractical to avoid it all of the time.

So doing it imperfectly is less important - the idea is that we are doing it as far as we are practically able, without beating ourselves up for being unable to reach certain levels of perfection.

A bit like trying our best to recycle, or avoid plastic, but in reality it's not always going to be possible to be perfect. But at least we are doing our best.

We are all hypocrites to a certain extent, but that we are doing something that aligns with our values is better than doing nothing at all, if that is the path that appeals to us.

Edited

Well said

OP posts:
Original poster
Desertrose2023 · 24/12/2023 20:07

stormy4319trevor · 24/12/2023 19:19

Oreos, Kit Kat, Doritos - but I need to get healthier anyway! Gillette, Amazon, Colgate, L;Oreal, Nivea, Garnier - but I don't like animal testing and am hypersensitive to chemicals in cosmetics as well. Generally I think that if you try to buy ethical and sustainable it's best anyway,

Someone shared this link with me which looks quite useful as it suggests alternatives too

https://app.jotform.com/233132600098852

Watermelon

Your money, your choice. Choose Palestine.

https://app.jotform.com/233132600098852

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:09

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 19:54

Looking through some of the products it objects to a company with a base in Tel Aviv which it describes as 'Occupied Palestine'.

So is the basic assumption that Israel shouldn't exist?

Show quote history

Ah yes, found this in their FAQs

"So we will strive for the state of israel to cease and desist and for Palestine to become a home for peaceful Arabs and peaceful jews to live with equal rights together."

They want Israel wiped off the map.

stormy4319trevor · 24/12/2023 20:12

@Desertrose2023 Thanks, I'll have a browse. Look like some nice products for curly hair there, and natural ingredients.

Original poster
Desertrose2023 · 24/12/2023 20:13

1dayatatime · 24/12/2023 19:27

As well as a lot of other well known companies:

enduyghurforcedlabour.org/news/402-2/

I was surprised to see IKEA on that list. I don’t know why but I (naively) assumed as a charity they would be subject to more stringent standards on their supply chains. How disappointing.

OP posts:
Anotherdayanotherdiet · 24/12/2023 20:14

"So we will strive for the state of israel to cease and desist and for Palestine to become a home for peaceful Arabs and peaceful jews to live with equal rights together

It says cease and desist not cease to exist.
Cease and desist means to demand someone stop an activity (usually an illegal one)

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:20

Anotherdayanotherdiet · 24/12/2023 20:14

"So we will strive for the state of israel to cease and desist and for Palestine to become a home for peaceful Arabs and peaceful jews to live with equal rights together

It says cease and desist not cease to exist.
Cease and desist means to demand someone stop an activity (usually an illegal one)

Except they want to see Israel wiped off the map.

From the fact that you are objecting to this interpretation, it seems that you disagree and do not want to see Israel wiped off the map.

Consumer Boycotts
sailingdriving · 24/12/2023 20:24

@noblegiraffe I would interpret that as they want Israel and Palestine to merge together to be a single state. I don't think they mean wiping Israel off the map, just living together in peace and democratically having equal rights.

BigBoysDontCry · 24/12/2023 20:24

Thanks for the list of companies to support, except nestle of course as I avoid them for many other reasons.

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:24

sailingdriving · 24/12/2023 20:24

@noblegiraffe I would interpret that as they want Israel and Palestine to merge together to be a single state. I don't think they mean wiping Israel off the map, just living together in peace and democratically having equal rights.

A single state which they helpfully call Palestine.

So what would happen to Israel?

sailingdriving · 24/12/2023 20:26

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:24

A single state which they helpfully call Palestine.

So what would happen to Israel?

Show quote history

You'll have to ask them I guess. They talk about all Israelis and Palestinians living side by side, so it doesn't sound as though Israelis would be asked to leave. I guess if you're objecting to Israel being renamed Palestine then given their proposal for equal rights, if this were implemented, there could be a democratic vote on it, so this could be agreed democratically.

So do you want Palestine wiped off the map? Or the continuation of the oppression of Palestinian rights?

Original poster
Desertrose2023 · 24/12/2023 20:26

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:20

Except they want to see Israel wiped off the map.

From the fact that you are objecting to this interpretation, it seems that you disagree and do not want to see Israel wiped off the map.

Show quote history

A one state solution is the openly declared intent of the current Israeli government too. Only I haven’t seen Bibi refer to his vision being equal rights for all. The individuals behind that link apparently have a view, so do some others out there who advocate for a one state solution where both peoples live together as equals. That’s not new. I’m personally in favour of two states but that’s not the topic of the thread so please stop derailing.

OP posts:
Anotherdayanotherdiet · 24/12/2023 20:28

From the fact that you are objecting to this interpretation

To be honest I don’t see anything in your original quote that suggests they want Israel wiped off the map.

A single state solution could just mean integrating the Palestinians into Israel (where, as I understand it, Arabs already live).

Of course it’s questionable whether there is enough (or any) goodwill/trust on either side for this to be anything other than a pipe dream but it doesn’t seem aggressive in any way.

ElevenSeven · 24/12/2023 20:30

A single state solution could just mean integrating the Palestinians into Israel (where, as I understand it, Arabs already live).

And Hamas? They’d just live peacefully alongside them all?

This is laughable.

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:32

I guess if you're objecting to Israel being renamed Palestine then given their proposal for equal rights, if this were implemented, there could be a democratic vote on it, so this could be agreed democratically.

And they also say that the Jews would be outvoted by Palestinians so they'd be presupposing the outcome.

They want the Jewish State of Israel to cease to exist, if you don't like the phrase 'wiped off the map'.

sailingdriving · 24/12/2023 20:34

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:32

I guess if you're objecting to Israel being renamed Palestine then given their proposal for equal rights, if this were implemented, there could be a democratic vote on it, so this could be agreed democratically.

And they also say that the Jews would be outvoted by Palestinians so they'd be presupposing the outcome.

They want the Jewish State of Israel to cease to exist, if you don't like the phrase 'wiped off the map'.

I don't see the idea of Israel being wiped out in anything they have written.

So do you want Palestine wiped off the map? Or the continuation of the oppression of Palestinian rights?

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:34

The individuals behind that link apparently have a view

Discussing the motives behind a boycott link that you personally described as 'useful' would seem to be on topic.

Livelovebehappy · 24/12/2023 20:38

I work for a big bank in complaints and we've had some customers (very few) contacting us to question our support for Israel and threatening to close their accounts. Our policy is not to engage and just send them the account closure forms to complete. Which i think is the best way of dealing with it. There arent enough people trying to blackmail us for it to be causing any problems tbh.....

Trulywonderful · 24/12/2023 20:40

noblegiraffe · 24/12/2023 20:34

The individuals behind that link apparently have a view

Discussing the motives behind a boycott link that you personally described as 'useful' would seem to be on topic.

Very on topic

The same as talking about who arranges marches or protests. You would have thought people would put some effort into making sure the organisers were after peace and not linked to anything iffy.

sailingdriving · 24/12/2023 20:41

I have heard about some issues related to Palestine with Barclays bank in particular.

I'm not sure you can argue it as being blackmail; it's about being a conscious consumer and choosing where to put your money.

Given the money you invest in a bank is at the disposal of that bank, and that bank's actions in the world can have real effects on the lives of certain people, if you don't agree with that, you are at liberty not to support it.

Voicing concerns at least tells the bank you're not happy and why you are leaving.

Anotherdayanotherdiet · 24/12/2023 20:41

And Hamas? They’d just live peacefully alongside them all?
Well not if Israel gets rid of them? That’s what they’re currently trying to do right?

Trulywonderful · 24/12/2023 20:43

Livelovebehappy · 24/12/2023 20:38

I work for a big bank in complaints and we've had some customers (very few) contacting us to question our support for Israel and threatening to close their accounts. Our policy is not to engage and just send them the account closure forms to complete. Which i think is the best way of dealing with it. There arent enough people trying to blackmail us for it to be causing any problems tbh.....

Sounds sensible

You can't negotiate or talk to people that are on a crusade about something. They won't listen and will just use anything you say against you. Big companies can only sensibly do the same as your bank

Livelovebehappy · 24/12/2023 20:44

ScroogeCarol · 24/12/2023 17:58

I remember in the 80s, many families including ours boycotted S African goods and it apparently made a difference so who knows. I don’t think the boycott of Israeli products is as widespread here.

My daughter is finding it a bit difficult at university. So many of the students en masse are boycotting Starbucks, McD and many many other companies who they say have connections to Israel. Way more extreme than my own boycotts. The latest is Pret. She has quite a limited diet due to health problems so I have said she needs to be pragmatic about what she chooses to boycott and prioritise her health.

Can't rhink Stsrbucks are worrying. I've been jn two different ones this weekend in the centre of Leeds, which has a very large uni presence,, and both have been packed out with queues to the door , both young and old.

TriOptimim · 24/12/2023 20:44

I feel like they could say "We want the extermination of all Jews" and people would find a way to explain it away, like "well they obviously don't mean the literal extermination, that's just your interpretation.".

Trulywonderful · 24/12/2023 20:46

TriOptimim · 24/12/2023 20:44

I feel like they could say "We want the extermination of all Jews" and people would find a way to explain it away, like "well they obviously don't mean the literal extermination, that's just your interpretation.".

You mean when they say stuff like this

Consumer Boycotts