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Conflict in the Middle East

Israeli arrogance thwarted a Palestinian political path. October 7 revealed the cost

11 replies

Decisiontimenow · 29/11/2023 21:34

The last time I posted an article by Israeli (and other Jewish) authors that didn’t match up with the apparent party line, it hit a nerve that I didn’t predict. So just to say, I don’t have a “take” on this article either- other than I’m devastated Oct7 wasn’t avoided for all those poor Israelis and the subsequent Palestinians (ongoing).
Sharing as it makes a very interesting read and is also valuable to recognise nothing happens in a vacuum, despite the people incapable of thinking beyond a certain five-letter-word!

For people seeking informed Israeli perspectives that also take into account the reality of life for Palestinians, Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe, Amira Hass are just some of the historians / journalists to seek out.

from the article—-

Menachem Klein is professor of Political Science at Bar Ilan University. He was an advisor to the Israeli delegation in negotiations with the PLO in 2000 and was one of the leaders of the Geneva Initiative

In February and March 2021, Fatah and Hamas, the two rival Palestinian political parties, reached an agreement to hold elections for the presidency of the Palestinian Authority, its Legislative Council, and Hamas' entry into the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). The elections were planned to take place in accordance with the Oslo Accords, after which negotiations would continue with Israel toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
The agreement included a commitment to uphold international law, establish a state within the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, recognize the PLO as the legitimate and exclusive umbrella framework, conduct a peaceful popular struggle, and transfer the separate government in the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority.

President Mahmoud Abbas sent the agreement to the new Biden administration and European governments in the hope that they would support holding national elections with Hamas' participation, and would then pressure Israel to allow voting across the occupied territories, including in East Jerusalem.

As expected, Israel objected to including East Jerusalem in the elections, seeing it as undermining its claims to sovereignty over the occupied and annexed part of the city. Still, Hamas offered to hold the elections anyway, and accepted the restriction imposed by Israel. But Israel and the United States exerted heavy pressure on Abbas to cancel them all the same.
In the end, Abbas capitulated under severe pressure.

The "Unity Intifada" began a few days later, and with it, Hamas' Operation "Sword of Jerusalem" and Israel's "Operation Guardian of the Walls." According to reports in the New York Times and Washington Post, it was around that same time that Al-Aqsa Brigades, Hamas' military wing, began conceiving and planning what would become "Al-Aqsa Flood" - the murderous assault of October 7.

-rest of article at link below 👇

Menachem Klein is professor of Political Science at Bar Ilan University. He was an advisor to the Israeli delegation in negotiations with the PLO in 2000 and was one of the leaders of the Geneva Initiative. His new book, Arafat and Abbas: Portraits of Leadership in a State Postponed, was just published by Hurst London and Oxford University Press New York.

https://www.972mag.com/hamas-fatah-elections-israel-arrogance/

Israeli arrogance thwarted a Palestinian political path. October 7 revealed the cost

A Fatah-Hamas agreement in 2021 offered a different political horizon. But success blinded Israel — just as it did before the 1973 war.

https://www.972mag.com/hamas-fatah-elections-israel-arrogance/

OP posts:
ssd · 29/11/2023 22:18

Israeli arrogance is at the heart of all this. That, and entitlement.

CatLoaf · 30/11/2023 07:55

Israeli arrogance is at the heart of October 7th?

Decisiontimenow · 30/11/2023 08:27

@CatLoaf that is the title of the article! Written by the professor of Political Science at Bar Ilan University. He was an advisor to the Israeli delegation in negotiations with the PLO in 2000 and was one of the leaders of the Geneva Initiative

why not read and then comment? You might learn something, at least the answer to your, I assume rhetorical, question.

OP posts:
NmeChngeFail · 30/11/2023 08:48

It seems only Israeli sources hold weight even when Palestinians say the same thing.

This is how Oct 7th came to be. These are the original IDF soldiers talking about the 1st Nakba, what they did, what they saw other people do, what they were told to do, straight from the horses mouth.

https://x.com/CensoredMen/status/1729977996604322184?s=20

https://x.com/CensoredMen/status/1729977996604322184?s=20

Depdawg · 30/11/2023 10:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PurpleChrayne · 30/11/2023 10:52

It started generations ago.

The Arab faction rejected the UN's deal in 1948, and every subsequent deal since. Having a homeland wasn't their objective. It was destroying the Jewish people and nascent statehood.

Decisiontimenow · 30/11/2023 11:04

This article and it’s title are by Menachem Klein who is professor of Political Science at Bar Ilan University.
He was an advisor to the Israeli delegation in negotiations with the PLO in 2000 and was one of the leaders of the Geneva Initiative. I think it is highly likely he knows more about this situation than anyone on this site. I want to hear serious political analysis, I want a fuller understanding as do many posters on here.

My only comment on it has been to say:
”I’m devastated Oct7 wasn’t avoided for all those poor Israelis and the subsequent Palestinians (ongoing).
Sharing as it makes a very interesting read and is also valuable to recognise nothing happens in a vacuum, despite the people incapable of thinking beyond a certain five-letter-word!”

I will not engage with anything outside sincere thoughts about the article, as it’s not productive.

OP posts:
jm9138 · 30/11/2023 11:10

@Depdawg I just watched this. I cannot speak Hebrew so I don't know if this is what they are saying (although it is a strange thing for one of them to be laughing about if the translation is correct). Have you done any research to see where this is actually from or if it is genuine?

Depdawg · 30/11/2023 11:12

jm9138 · 30/11/2023 11:10

@Depdawg I just watched this. I cannot speak Hebrew so I don't know if this is what they are saying (although it is a strange thing for one of them to be laughing about if the translation is correct). Have you done any research to see where this is actually from or if it is genuine?

?

jm9138 · 30/11/2023 12:57

@Depdawg Sorry - I meant to say @NmeChngeFail

Depdawg · 30/11/2023 13:00

jm9138 · 30/11/2023 12:57

@Depdawg Sorry - I meant to say @NmeChngeFail

That's OK. I had a feeling you meant
That poster. 👍

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