Al-Shifa Hospital director arrested by Israeli army in Gaza

[Ohlalalalala]

Al-Shifa Hospital director arrested by Israeli army in Gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/23/al-shifa-hospital-director-arrested-by-israeli-army-in-gaza

😢😢😢 when will it end.

Horrendous. It must be stopped

Who is looking after the patients now?

It's a bit unclear how many patients remain at Al Shifa after the big evacuation to hospitals in southern gaza yesterday

It's not none though

Well they found tunnels and bunkers under the hospital whilst hospital staff were denying Hamas presence despite reports from people like Amnesty about the hospital being used by Hamas.

So not surprising really, having said that it’s not like he could have said “Hamas? Oh yeah this place is CRAWLING with Hamas operatives, c’mon I’ll show you their tunnel”. He’s be dead wouldn’t he.

I think the hospital have been evacuated and Egypt has taken premature babies in to treat (thank god).

You mention ‘reports by people like Amnesty’

Please will you link the reports you know of from Amnesty about Hamas using Al Shifa? (I am
not doubting you but would like to read them if you have links.)

I have so far just found this 2015 report about Hamas from Amnesty, referring to the period when Israel launched a previous military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014.

It mentions Hamas using a disused clinic at Al-Shifa. But does mention them using tunnels or an underground headquarters at there.

Mention of Al Shifa in this Amnesty report is of :
-a body retrieved from the Al Shifa hospital morgue

-Hamas interrogations and torture being carried out in a disused outpatients’ clinic within the grounds of Al Shifa.

These are the relevant paragraphs in this Amnesty report 2015:

“They broke him in the prison,” said his brother, who retrieved the body from al-Shifa hospital morgue on 22 August 2014”.
(n.b. It does not say the actual Hamas prison was at the hospital.)

“Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital.”
www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

The underground section under Al Shifa was apparently built by Israel in the first place, so even if Hamas is using the underground part, it is confusing that the IDF never referred to their own prior detailed knowledge openly; and presumably they have plans of the original layout they could use without bombing/shelling and then saying ‘look we’ve found a tunnel’ (my paraphrase).

“Bunkers Under Gaza Hospital Were Built by Israel”, Former Israel PM Says

“Officials have claimed that the tunnels are Hamas military command centers as Israeli forces raided al-Shifa hospital.”

By Sharon Zhang , TRUTHOUT
PublishedNovember 21, 2023

Former prime minister of Israel Ehud Barak acknowledged in an interview on Monday that the bunkers underneath al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza that have been continually propped up by the Israeli military as a reason that they needed to bomb and raid the facility were actually built by Israel.

In an interview on CNN, Christiane Amanpour asked Barak whether or not he felt the Israeli government has sufficiently proved that the tunnels under al-Shifa were being used as major command centers by Hamas forces.

In response, Barak simply said that “it’s already known for many years that … the bunkers that originally [were] built by Israeli constructors underneath Shifawere used as a command post of the Hamas,” seemingly offering this as proof that Israeli officials’ claims were true.

In disbelief, Amanpour then asked, “when you say it was built by Israeli engineers, did you misspeak?”

“No, no,” Barak replied. “Decades ago, we were running the place so we … helped them to build these bunkers in order to enable more space for the operation to enable more space for the operation of the hospital within the very limited size of this compound.”

…………..the article continues.
https://truthout.org/articles/bunkers-under-gaza-hospital-were-built-by-israel-former-israel-pm-says/

By the way, read that 2015 Amnesty report about Hamas 2014 torturing and quite possibly executing any Palestinian whom they accuse of collaboration, and it seems clear anyone working there, like this doctor, would effectively have no choice but to deny any Hamas presence even if they knew of it.

"Tunnels" and "bunkers" under the hospital were built by Israel in the 1980s as part of expanding the hospital. Ehud Barak confirmed it himself.

There is no evidence whatsoever that it's been used by Hamas this time. I have never seen an army in the world lying as much and as brazenly as the IDF. No one in their right mind would trust any "evidence" coming from them without verification from independent third party.

@Ohlalalalala but I always see that you are very happy to take anything that Hamas say as gospel. Hamas, a terrorist organisation.

Example?

Edited to tag @Bigminnie1

I think most people understand that the doctors haven't been free to be honest.

The part I personally struggle with is the amount of people on here and all over social media who are now claiming the same thing you are, but a few days ago were adamant it wasn't true that Hamas were in the hospitals. We were shouted down for suggesting it was true, or for suggesting we wait for evidence before assuming it isn't true. And now you're saying "of course it's true, but what could the poor doctors possibly have done?!". It's not the doctors' words I take issue with, it's everyone else's.

Thats the same amnesty report, the point being Hamas uses the hospital which was denied by hospital staff. Most hospitals have a basement, system, that is not unusual, that is probably what Israel is talking about. The tunnels were ten meters below the hospital, that’s completely different to a normal basement complex. It would’t have been that hard for the IDF to find the tunnels and bunkers if they had actually built them, I imagine somebody in intelligence would have mentioned it don’t you?

The broader point is that when militants use a hospital as a base then the hospital loses special protection, somethIng Hamas will be well aware of. The further point is that Hamas and the hospital staff have been denying the presence of Hamas. (Despite video of a hostage being dragged through the corridors) Now I don’t blame staff, I doubt most of them had much of a choice but then obviously if you have been lying to the IDF for weeks then they are going to want to ask you some more questions aren’t they?

You think Hamas is a reliable source of information? I don’t believe a word they say, it’s amazing how many people are happy to believe them.

I mean c’mon the whole thing about that hospital carpark, Hamas rushed out to say 500 people had died and it was an Israeli missile. Independent analysts looked at it and said 200 people tops and it looked like a probable misfire and not an Israeli rocket. They lied IMMEDIATELY and never took responsibility, how many other people have been killed by Hamas or Islamic Jihad by accident? How many in their tally of dead was caused by them? Have they ever said “we are sorry that was us”.

I do not believe any accusation from Hamas, except where they expose their own atrocity. Not one. Why would I believe any claim made by the group who paraded the mutilated bodies of women civilians through the streets?

The part I personally struggle with is the amount of people on here and all over social media who are now claiming the same thing you are, but a few days ago were adamant it wasn't true that Hamas were in the hospitals. We were shouted down for suggesting it was true, or for suggesting we wait for evidence before assuming it isn't true. And now you're saying "of course it's true, but what could the poor doctors possibly have done?!". It's not the doctors' words I take issue with, it's everyone else's.
I don't think many people denied that Hamas had tunnels all over the place.

There have been a lot of people questioning the morality of wiping out huge number of civilians on the grounds that "Hamas might have tunnels" though. That seems quite reasonable given that now more than 10,000 civilians have been killed by the IDF.

Unfortunately the IDF supporters seem to have taken a line that basically as long as there's a tunnel or Hamas might be there then that's a green light to indiscriminately bomb areas known to be full of civilians, and then if anyone says that's not a good idea then they shout "human shields" / "but it's Hamas that's really responsible for the IDF actions" as if that somehow makes the civilians expendable. There's quite a few posters who instead of acknowledging that there's a terrorist group on one side and an occupying force bombing huge numbers of civilians on the other, are absolutely determined to avoid any criticism of the IDF.

I had no problem accepting that it could have been a misfired rocket until the IDF started posting videos from different events on SM and faking audio of a "recorded phone call" to support the claim that it was PIJ who were responsible. It was a lot of effort to go to if it wasn't them.

Do you have another example of a misfired rocket inside Gaza (happens all the time) causing 200 casualties?

I think he’s the brother of a former Hamas leader who was assassinated by Israel in 2004 or something. The surname has variable spellings so hard to know for sure.

Not that that condones it though.

The claim is that Hamas have built hundreds of kilometres of tunnels in Gaza; it would be difficult not to run under civilian infrastructure in a territory which measures 7 miles by 25 miles.

I use the word claim in relation to the distance not the existence of the tunnels because it's an estimate which changes from one news report to another, that tells me no one really knows how long the tunnels are.

I do not believe a word Hamas or the IDF say. I have no idea if there is a huge "terror command centre" under Al Shifa but even if we assume there was I am unable to work out how depriving civilians of food, water and shelter helps the IDF locate it.

Agree, the problem is there are so many lies and inaccuracies from both sides - it's impossible to believe anything not independently verified.

Al-Shifa Hospital?
You mean the Al-Shifa terrorist HQ and armoury?

We're still waiting for the "evidence" with baited breath.🙄

WHO concerned about al-Shifa chief detained by Israel, remaining patients https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/25/who-concerned-about-al-shifa-chief-detained-by-israel-remaining-patients

Just thought I'd post this here - it's from Haaretz on 25 November credit to @ScrollingLeaves on another thread - also seen it mentioned on twitter [usual caveats]

''The IDF said it used the last few hours before the cease-fire to destroy the tunnels beneath Al-Shifa Hospital, and that it completed its operation in the hospital complex itself.'' IDF appear to have left the hospital at least for the duration of the ceasefire

Hamas won't be able to creep back into the tunnels now

But isn't this destroying evidence as well?

What kind of magic has been used thats enabled a supposed vast complex of tunnels under a building to be ‘destroyed’ without the building collapsing into the void created by that destruction?

Read on the thread about the tunnels that filling them with some kind of expanding plastic foam was the way to go - but who knows

But twitter [usual caveats] supported the explosions

There were some photos on Al Jazeera yesterday of the hospital where it looked in a very bad way

Who knows eh

Who knows eh

Precisely.