What difference will marches make?

[quiteoldad]

Show me an MP who will resign from their party as a result of their party’s stance on the conflict. Whilst a few may make noises, they all know that it is the party that butters their bread.

The next general election will be about the familiar topics of the NHS, education, tax and immigration. By the next election these marches will play little or no part in the way people vote. Both Sunak and Starmer know this, hence marches will do little or nothing to change foreign policy. Apart from showing empathy with fellow human beings, on a practical level, they have so far, achieved zilch.

That’s the sad truth.
Please convince me otherwise.

Personally, I will not vote for either of the main parties from now on.

I don't know @quiteoldad Politicians began by endorsing the full siege, stating Israel had the right to withhold essentials from the population of Gaza. After petitions and protest they shifted to talking about allowing aid and pauses. I don't know if that would have happened without the mass objections, obviously from UN and aid organisations, but also from the general public.

i think you’re right to say the politicians will largely ignore the protests and do what there were going to do anyway. Hadn’t it always been the way? Look at the Iraq war protest, one of the largest anti-war protest ever and it was completely ignored.

I have been at a loss as to who to vote for for a while now.

The marches have caused a right wing, pro Israeli Gov and anti Palestinian senior minister to be sacked.

That's no small thing, though obviously not intended.

Edited for spelling though intented seems suitable as well

I feel similarly disaffected by the fence-sitting and have to agree with you.

What has the UK turned into? There is no party worth voting for.

There is no party to vote for.

With the pro-Palestinian marches I just hope that somehow knowledge of them gets to people in Gaza. That way they might get a tiny crumb of comfort from knowing that elsewhere on this blighted star (to quote Thomas Hardy) they are not forgotten.

I believe a few labour peopke have resigned after labours behaviour

I think it’s very possible the marches do very little. I do think though that the marches give a lot of people who are feeling the pain of this conflict deeply but cannot speak about it openly a place to go to feel solidarity and a sense that not everyone is blind to the injustices. People are seeing it even if the powers stay silent.

That feeling gives me consolation and hence I plan to go as long as they carry on and I can.

I agree when I recall the fervour and disappointment after the Iraq protest I did decide they make no difference at all.

I just don’t know what to do in the next election. I’m so sad there is no one who can speak for the right things now. Who knew fairness and equality were so elusive characteristics.

Yes, but I think the Blairites remain!
On another note, the Braverman fiasco has shown up the way her rhetoric engages with the far right. In turn, it engages with what our media has called the 'most far right government Israel has ever known.' I think it highlights the dangers of the rise of the far right, and probably has decent conservatives very worried - that their ideas are being hijacked by fans of the Nazis. If the marches have exposed the resurgence of far right ideology, and how this influences the actions in Gaza, they have created a space for a different kind of politics - which will be more humane both here and abroad. I haven't explained this very well! But maybe it makes sense to somebody.

The marches are very ineffective and won't change a thing. Israel and countries/States around the world are not going to listen to a very small minority of their population protesting. Especially when the protests are seen as unruly, vandalism is caused or police attacked.

The protest in the UK have far less people attending than people that go to the football on a Saturday. For instance Wembley holds 90k people and most London clubs 60k. Therefore the crowds you see in photos or videos are actually nothing much compared to a city like London with 9 million citizens. Plus to get that crowd protesters have been coached in from various other towns and cities. It isn't even all Londoners.

The march organisers know the government are not going to change policy or their support to Israel because of the marches. Equally they know Israel will only ceasefire when they chose too.

So why do the organisers arrange these marches. Well as we have seen in the news the organisers are an ex Hamas member, about 6 know Jew haters and Stop the war coalition. The first two I mentioned I think you can work out why they would want to put on a march to upset Jews and cause divide between the Jewish and Muslim citizens of the UK. As for the third lot you need to look at their marches about Ukraine/Russia conflict. They blamed Ukraine for Russia invading them. They also held old Soviet Union flags on their marches. That kind of says it all about their warped view of the world. Plus they love Cobyn so you can imagine how they feel about the average Jewish person in the UK or Israel.

Of course there are other organisers and some may generally what a ceasefire and peace. However the overriding evidence is that those things are not the reason for the marches. You have to remember the first protest took place on 7th October to celebrate the pogrom. Fireworks and flares were set off and antisemitism chants/shouting were filmed

@Trulywonderful
You have to remember the first protest took place on 7th October to celebrate the pogrom. Fireworks and flares were set off and antisemitism chants/shouting were filmed

Yes, this detail seems to be conveniently forgotten about.

Like so many other conveniently forgotten facts it seems

Yet people complain if someone calls them hate marches or questions the root reason why people have joined them

Go figure

Rishi Sunak said that the UK is 100% behind Israel, the marches tell the Government and the world that actually no we're not...

But you're right, they won't change anything...

There was no march on 7/10.

The first march after the Hamas terrorist attack was on the 14th Oct outside the BBC at Portland Place

Around 67 million people in the UK

Biggest Protest 300k

🙄

@Trulywonderful here we go again.

you forgot the following, do you condemn Hamas, everyone supporting Palestine supports terrorist and oh the best one, that bullet did not kill that child, hamas did, that’s the best one.

it’s very clear the public opinion is changing and many people have lost their respect for Israel. The government too have changed their stance, the ex Israeli prime minister said the same a few days ago. He said give it two / three weeks and tensions between Israel and America will come to light too.

I get it, you’re afraid. I would be too if people finally saw my country for the apartheid state it was.

Polls say 70% of the UK support a ceasefire

I don't believe that Suella Braverman would have been sacked without the marches, so that's an example of the impact on UK politics OP.

The most extreme Nazi rhetoric I've seen in the last few weeks has not come from the right wing. The Met are currently looking for the guy in the clip below.

https://twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1723475231484895485

However unpleasant we find the EDL crowd and their penchant for hooligan style street fighting this man is not one of theirs and I'm yet to see a clip with of one of them say anything quite as bold as this.

This is also not the only footage of ' the Jews' type rhetoric in public places from people who are very obviously not far right/EDL types.

There is space of course to be worried about the far right as they never go away but as shown at the weekend they are a smallish and containable presence. The police did a good job of managing and mitigating any trouble they attempted to start.

Right now the above concerns me more because I'm not seeing that the police or the government are doing a good job of dealing with the very extreme antisemitism from the far left/Islamic left. Tommy Robinson and his mob are not the main reason why Jewish families are currently afraid to leave their homes and communities.

you forget to add the people from other marches. Also does everyone have to march to make a march valid ?

Not the same as not supporting Israel. Of course people what everyone to stop killings each other. That is a given. Well apart from some extremist types.

The question should be do you support the need to rid the middle east of extreme Islamic groups? Or do you support Israel's need to defend itself, which is basically what most the world leaders are saying they do. Even if some are asking for a ceasefire etc.

Plus the Arab states mostly want rid of Hamas too. They have largely shown in their own killing of Palestinians that they don't actually care about them. Hence the reason why those states are mostly just making sound bits to keep there own Muslim percentage of population happy. If the Arab states wanted this to stop it would have stopped. Israel made deals and shook hands in the meeting with Arab leaders at the beginning of this. What is happening has largely been agreed amongst them all. Israel would not have set foot in Gaza on the ground if that had not been had the ok from most surrounding states. Hence why Iran keep having a paddy because the other states won't join them in a war with Israel.

Still doesn't add up to many

There are 9 million people in London. Yet they still had to bus in thousands of people from outside London

Most people really are not overly taking a side on the conflict. The majority want a ceasefire from both sides I am sure. However I think people also realise thinks are not that simple. People would also demand Hamas hand over the hostages before a ceasefire for example. A lot of factors involved and sometimes people try to simplify things to much. I believe the average person in the UK are scared of the idea of terrorism. Therefore they get why Israel may react this way. So find it hard to judge the react and support the government supporting Israel. That doesn't mean Joe blogs doesn't what a all side ceasefire though. Nobody wants to see or hear about children dieing do they.

I believe that marches have little meaningful effect. However I'm prepared to say to my political party, "You'll not have my vote, until you change your foreign policy".

Instead of marching, perhaps we should be saying this.

The flaw in this is that with our iniquitous first past the post sytem, there is no hope of representation for voters who disagree with both the Labour and Tory parties.

So much wrong with your post. Especially your understanding of the politic situation between different countries or peoples views on Israel before this latest conflict. Are you new to this?

Also what do you mean my State?

Because I am Jewish you see me as Israeli?

Says it all really!

Straw man argument.

The march was calling for ceasefire.

70% of the UK support that call.

Many times have I supported Israel's right to defend itself.

Many times have I condemned the Hamas terrorists and the release of all hostages.

Like the vast majority of the UK none of the above is conflicting with horror at the massive suffering and death of innocents on such an unimaginable scale.