To think "Pro Hamas" is a phrase that is being used without thinking?

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

It is a word that is just being thrown around everywhere.

Pro Hamas means someone who is a supporter of Hamas.

But the ordinary person who calls for a ceasefire is called Pro Hamas. Someone who says innocent civilians are dying in Gaza are branded Pro Hamas. Someone who says Israel are and have broken international law are branded Pro Hamas. Someone who says Netanyahu's government have people that could be branded far right are branded Pro Hamas.

It seems like if you criticise the Israeli government, IDF etc you are Pro Hamas. It is just a way to shut down debate and reject people who have valid points.

No it's a conscious choice.

The words are intended to shame anyone who doesn't think justifiable defensive actions include depriving the civilian population of food, water and medical care and indiscriminate bombing which results in the deaths of thousands. It's used to imply that anyone who does not agree with the Israeli governments action is a terrorist sympathiser/antisemite.

It's manipulative and childish.

DH and I were just saying the same. What Hamas did was atrocious. What the Israeli government is doing is too. Both are wrong. War crimes are war crimes. Terrorism is terrorism. Neither are justifiable.

I am most definitely not anti-Semitic. I am most definitely not pro-Hamas. IMO both the Jewish community and the Palestinian people have been treated appallingly and both deserve freedom, safety and security. Innocent children should never be pawns in this way. It’s disgusting. The worst of what human beings can do.

I don’t know what the answers are and I don’t claim to understand the history fully, but I do think we have to be able to discuss it critically, without being shut down by claims of racism. I’m far from that. About as far as you get.

And on the other hand anyone who talks about the need to stop Hamas from committing more terrorist atrocities is accused of supporting the genocide of Palestinians and the murder of babies and children.

Lots of bellends around these parts with no nuance in their arguments.

Totally agree. I couldn't be further from being pro Hamas. But am opposed to the military destruction of Gaza and the suffering of civilians on all sides. These labels are all part of the culture wars.

@SleepDreamThinkHuge
You are not being unreasonable, OP.

No, it is just the inverse of 'condoning bombing of innocent children' which is a quick response.

The situation is far too complex than just asking for a cease fire and those prompting those difficult questions is not in favour of another simplistic answer of wanting genocide.

What is being labelled as pro hamas is just using the values of previous protests against them, such as, if your on a march and a couple of people are flying nazi flags and chanting (taken on literal value) calling for the death of others then guilt by association, it became the go to meme put down of if x amount sit down at a table with one nazi then the table is now full of nazis, it is is using the using the standards that have been set that are now out chanting 'from the river to the sea' but with added context.

It is easy to declare you are against Hamas online, those who try and do it in person though which is minimal, do actually face pushback.

What you are doing is thinking that it is the opposition side that can't think clearly in simplistic black and white terms, when it is you who doesn't understand the grey areas of what you think is a basic simplistic situation.

To paraphrase a popular statement, not everyone who chants 'from the river to the sea' is a raging anti-Semite, but every raging anti-Semite does go and chant 'from the river to the sea'

It is easy to declare you are against Hamas online

I can’t think of a single reason why anyone would be for Hamas tbh. Calling someone a Hamas supporter because they criticise Israel or go on a march is silly quite frankly.

That said the talk of killing children being Israel’s actual aim or that they are attempting genocide is also hyperbole imo.

@Reallifelurker Do you consider these words to be hyperbole?

x.com/kthalps/status/1723538810221338973?s=20

That is a horrifying video @Ecdysiast

OP, the people who use those words are either trying to shut people up or are deliberately trying to be goady so the person disagreeing ends up banned (forums) or gets arrested (real life). That is their goal.

That said the talk of killing children being Israel’s actual aim or that they are attempting genocide is also hyperbole imo.

I genuinely don't think so. Look at the video @Ecdysiast posted, Israel have literally told us and are showing us what they want. I think its bizarre that people can't see that. All of the children being starved, getting little hollow cheeks what is the end game here if not to make children suffer? Have people forgotten that they are starving people and leaving them with dirty water and diseases? It's been weeks of this. I genuinely don't see how when Israel are declaring they want genocide then starving people,forcing them into unsanitary conditions, then getting rid of medical centres and denying medical aid that could possibly help people it can be seen as anything but an attempted genocide?

Agreed @OuiOuiKitty . The Israelis have made clear their objective. We can take them at their word that this is an extermination campaign. No need to do mental gymnastics to try to portray this as anything else, @Reallifelurker .

x.com/kthalps/status/1723538810221338973?s=20