Why wasn’t the Israel-Palestinian issue dealt with before?

[WinterWarmth]

The conflict has been going on for 75 years. It has taken large scale atrocities on civilians with a level of barbarity rarely seen before for Israel to declare war on Gaza but there are reports going back years of Israel breaking the human rights laws of Palestinians, illegally occupying territory, killing and imprisoning civilians indiscriminately and preventing basic human needs like food and water getting to Gaza and the West Bank.

Billions of aid has been given to the Palestinians over decades, there is a heavy presence from the UN and global human rights agencies so these abuses have been well documented.

The horrific attack on Israel was apparently the Palestinians fighting for freedom after years of suppression and atrocities against them. A large proportion of the world seems to believe it was warranted but Israel declaring war in retaliation isn’t.

In which case. it begs the question why has Israel, a UN member, not been dealt with before these current events? Sanctions put in place, UN peacekeeping forces sent in, barred from the political world stage etc?

Surely it would have been more cost effective in terms of money AND lives if the world had intervened before current events?

It didn't begin 75 years ago, it began about 1900 years before the birth of Jesus. The current conflict is not about borders or politics but about a family rivalry which is quoted in many religious texts.

The Biblical account (Genesis 12) says that Abram and Sarai could not have children of their own but yet God had spoken to Abraham (as he later became known) and not only given him the land in front of him but said he would be 'the father of many nations'.

He was getting to be 100 years old but there was still no sign of a child so Sarah told Abraham to sleep with her maid Hagar. Hagar had a son Ishmael and then in a surprising turn of events, Sarah also had a son, Isaac.

A huge family conflict broke out and Hagar and Ishmael had to leave the camp and over generations a new people group was established. In essence, Isaac (the Jewish people) and Ishmael (Arab/Arab descent) are half brothers so this is a family war that over the generations has become deeply embedded in religion, culture and practice. As to who owns the land, religious people will return to the original words/ownership rights bestowed by God. Others will offer a counter narrative or will say that in a modern world of politics, a religious text has no validity. Both sides (and every view in between) will believe they are right and it's very hard to separate this from religion and faith. The Israeli settlers believe they're on a God-inspired mission. Hamas possibly believe they're also on some kind of 'God-inspired' mission so how do you unpack that? You can't.

Offering simple answers like borders and peacekeeping troops doesn't even touch the sides of how deep this goes. Any political solution is really only a sticking plaster over a huge, infected wound that goes back nearly 4000 years.

Yes, that’s a bit like saying ‘Why weren’t the Troubles solved by not doing the Plantation of Ulster in the first place?’

Or 'can't you just shake hands and get over it?'

I would say very well researched. There are even reading lists if you want to expand your knowledge.

https://decolonizepalestine.com/reading-list/

It's good to research a wide range of material if you want to understand an issue.

Because it is a total shit show and no-one knows how to fix it.

Jewish religion says that the entire land of Palestine is Israel as in Biblical times.
All Jews sympathise with the idea that one day they will reclaim it as it was in the days of Moses.
So maybe we should think of the present violence as merely 'stepping stones' on a 3000year journey.
Both Islam and Judaism have traditions and attitudes to martyrdom which are different to Western Christianity or Western Liberal philosophy.

Agreed.

Iran is an Arab country now?

Religion.

Both sides claim the same land, neither will ever back down because each believes to be superior over the other in terms of my god is better than your god.

Utter madness that lives are ruined because of extreme beliefs in made up story books about imaginary beings. When the story book you read compels you to hate non believers and you actually go a long with it -well you’re never going to have a peaceful life. Ever.

Israel has always extended its hand in peace to its Arab neighbors. The Arabs, of course, have for the longest time rebuffed these efforts and remain determined to be enemies. At least, that’s what the Israeli claim is.

This distorted and ahistorical framing remains one of the cornerstones of the Israeli narrative. This narrative makes Israel out to be a victim on the defense, only reluctantly defending itself because its neighbors simply cannot stand that it exists. While not having much basis in reality, it is a rather convenient talking point. Suddenly, even Israel’s most offensive expansionism can be argued to be in “self-defense”, and helps legitimize the most brutal actions under the pretense that the Arabs cannot be reasoned with.

This talking point has been so successfully propagated that it might seem like common knowledge to many. However, it’s worth mentioning that other discredited Israeli talking points, such as the denial of the existence of Palestinians were also at one point considered common knowledge [You can read more about this here]. Let us briefly explore some examples where the Zionist Yishuv and later Israel could have chosen to pursue peace, but instead chose to maximize territorial gains and depopulate Palestinian communities to create new demographic realities.

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/israel-has-always-sought-peace/

Just cos it has lots of reading doesn't mean it's not bias. Just the use of the term "decolonize Palastine" is very bias

This isn't the only reason or even the main reason. it's the reason why the location is where it is. the reason why Israel exists and why the Jewish people feel they need it now and not just when the Messiah comes is due to decades and centuries of being killed, expelled and discriminated against in the diaspora. they wanted the rights to make decisions for themselves and live lives without fear. That's the whole basis of Zionism - that Jews have the right to self-determination - like everyone else does.

Because nobody knows how.

Let's take this "history" of the intifada in the early 2000s. According to this website

"This would set off wide-scale protests, civil disobedience, boycotts and other forms of resistance against Israel that would come to be known as the Intifada, which means to “shake off”. Palestinians would burn Israeli products, refuse to pay taxes to the civil administration, and organized themselves into popular committees to act as an alternative to the civil administration and provide services and promote Palestinian self-reliance. These committees were popularly led and decentralized in nature, which made them almost impossible to stamp out despite Israel’s best efforts."

Absolutely zero mention of the suicide bombers who walked into pizza parlours or onto school buses full of children with the intention of killing as many innocent civilians as possible.

There is zero mention of the Israeli viewpoint or any understanding of it. No mention of even the events of the last month. Just Palestine good, full of innocent people and Israel is bad bad state full of horrible murderers.

Jesus, I am bias but at least i don't try and claim I am not!

‘All Jews’?

Honestly I think there is something very very wrong with thinking you can sum up the feelings of an entire religion of people like that.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel , I very carefully used the word sympathise. If they do not recognise the land of Israel as being their home are they actually Jewish? I was assuming it was a foundation of belief.

Under the basic foundations of Jewish belief you are Jewish because your mother was Jewish and her mother was (or converted in etc). It doesn't matter if you believe in every facit of Judaism or the flying spagetti monster you are still Jewish. so your support for Israel has zero to do with it

All Jews? Seriously?

This

Because it is massively more complicated than you suggest and there effectively is no solution. Both sides are completely intractable - a far right Israeli government determined to wipe Hamas out at any cost, and Hamas themselves, who are bound by their constitution to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. I genuinely have very little hope that it can be ‘resolved’ in any meaningful sense.

I was going to let this go but on reflection it’s really important because misconceptions like yours are one of the pretexts for antisemitism in the modern world - holding all Jews responsible for the actions of Israel.

As Bells says, holding a particular view about Israel is absolutely NOT a precondition for being Jewish and I don’t know what you have been reading that tells you it is, probably some dangerously and deliberately biased sources aimed to stir up hate against Jewish people.

Do you think people of Jewish descent have historically been able to stop being persecuted by simply saying they don’t agree with particular beliefs? Generally it wouldn’t have helped them at all- antisemitism is a form of racism and by making statements about what ‘all Jews’ believe you are unintentionally (I hope) encouraging that.

As it happens the majority of Jewish people I have met including Israelis are pragmatic about the need to accommodate other peoples who also have a history in the area, subject to believing that Jews need and deserve a safe homeland just like anyone else does. There’s a vast diversity of opinions about the best way to achieve it. However my friends won’t be fully representative- I have never met a Netanyahu supporter but he obviously has many!

You deliberately used the word ‘sympathise’ which is quite a soft word but you attached it to an extreme position.

Prime Minister Netanyahu always talks of the Jewish homeland. Many Israelis talk of the Land being given to the Jews by God (at the time of Abraham). Newly arrived immigrants always talk of now being ‘home’.
Israel has spread Eastwards from the original Border by force not by negotiation or purchase. It has done this because it feels entitled to spread and exclude Palestinians.
I was truly astounded to read that belief in Israel as the home for the Jews is optional.

Firstly why are you so determined to conflate Israel and specifically the right wing of the Israeli government with ‘all Jews’? Do you think all English people agree with Suella Braverman? We elected her, after all. What about all members of the worldwide Anglican Communion?! Netanyahu says something, how on earth do you get from that to ‘all Jews’?

Secondly you are repeatedly muddling the idea of Israel as a homeland with a very specific idea of what this means - to quote your offensive post again,

‘Jewish religion says that the entire land of Palestine is Israel as in Biblical times.
All Jews sympathise with the idea that one day they will reclaim it as it was in the days of Moses.’

The idea of Israel as a homeland does not automatically imply turning the clock back 4000 years. If you have paid any attention at all how can you have missed knowing that within Israel itself, where the borders should be is hugely contested, let alone among the Jewish community worldwide?