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Conflict in the Middle East

U.K. government

15 replies

Wonderously · 05/11/2023 09:38

Excuse my ignorance but I’m struggling to understand why the U.K. government isn’t pushing for a cease fire in light of the 10k murders in the Gaza? The U.K. government seem at odds with the U.K. population.

OP posts:
Dulra · 05/11/2023 09:45

This was put to them on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg this morning. Seems to be because a ceasefire will help Hamas and will not solve the problem of getting rid of them. There does appear to be a strong camp that supports continued bombardment to defeat Hamas while knowing it will bring death and suffering to Palestinians. Interestingly labour are also not calling for a ceasefire

flufferknutter · 05/11/2023 09:53

Because everyone wants rid of the Palestinians of course. Let's not be coy about this little endeavour. We all know what's happening and the West are right on board.

quiteoldad · 05/11/2023 22:24

"Excuse my ignorance but I’m struggling to understand why the U.K. government isn’t pushing for a cease fire......."

Because Israel doesn't want a ceasefire.

The UK is an ally of Israel and because of commercial and strategic considerations, the UK does not want to seriously upset its relationship with that country. Israel is of far more use to the UK than Palestine. It's basically Realpolitik. It's very sad, that practical considerations push moral considerations into the background.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 06/11/2023 11:38

quiteoldad · 05/11/2023 22:24

"Excuse my ignorance but I’m struggling to understand why the U.K. government isn’t pushing for a cease fire......."

Because Israel doesn't want a ceasefire.

The UK is an ally of Israel and because of commercial and strategic considerations, the UK does not want to seriously upset its relationship with that country. Israel is of far more use to the UK than Palestine. It's basically Realpolitik. It's very sad, that practical considerations push moral considerations into the background.

Edited

As much as I hate to agree with it, yes, this sums it up quite neatly!

Geopolitically speaking, Israel serves a couple of useful roles to the so-called "West", ranging from its function as a lightning rod for Arab sentiment to some less savoury stuff such as arming and training actors that would just not go down well domestically if the US, UK & Co. did it directly. And a lot of other stuff, too!

They might like to talk fluff about "oh, but shared values and whatnot", but, really, in the world of realpolitik, nobody gives a flying fuck whether or not there is a PRIDE parade in Tel Aviv or whatever - if they did, Saudi would be a pariah state!

Israel simply has a good cost/benefit ratio for them.

And while that sounds horrible (it is!), it also pretty clearly lays out what needs to happen for this to change: the cost/benefit calculation needs shifting!

To some extent, mass public outrage is achieving some movement of that needle (as, ironically, is mass public outrage over mass public outrage). Hence the call for "humanitarian pauses", which clearly serves the purpose of maintaining some semblance of a moral conscience.

That said, if you think it through: "humanitarian pauses" are a downright cynical proposal: "let us keep people alive for long enough so they can die of bombs instead of starvation", basically!

Wonderously · 06/11/2023 18:27

It’s all so bloody frustrating, all these children being killed and our government shamefully failing to properly act despite Israel breaking so many international laws

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 06/11/2023 18:29

How would you see a ceasefire working? What conditions would each side have to agree to?

MissyB1 · 06/11/2023 18:34

Our Government and most of the west (not Ireland though) are just out for what suits them, what they can gain out of whom. It totally suits them to cosy up to Israel. The protests must continue, we must insist our politicians listen to us. They may not mind the slaughter of innocents, but those of us with a conscience do!

iutiut · 06/11/2023 18:51

Last week UN passed resolution calling for Hamas- Israel ceasefire. 120 countries voted yes including France and Spain, 14 countire voted against and the UK is one of the 45 countires to obstain. This was bearly mentioned in the news, shame on the UK.

U.K. government
HeidiInTheBigCity · 06/11/2023 21:08

iutiut · 06/11/2023 18:51

Last week UN passed resolution calling for Hamas- Israel ceasefire. 120 countries voted yes including France and Spain, 14 countire voted against and the UK is one of the 45 countires to obstain. This was bearly mentioned in the news, shame on the UK.

... despite the fact that everyone and their grandma knows that a UNGA vote is practically meaningless, so long as the UNSC does not follow up with something binding ...

notsoready4school · 06/11/2023 22:08

HeidiInTheBigCity · 06/11/2023 11:38

As much as I hate to agree with it, yes, this sums it up quite neatly!

Geopolitically speaking, Israel serves a couple of useful roles to the so-called "West", ranging from its function as a lightning rod for Arab sentiment to some less savoury stuff such as arming and training actors that would just not go down well domestically if the US, UK & Co. did it directly. And a lot of other stuff, too!

They might like to talk fluff about "oh, but shared values and whatnot", but, really, in the world of realpolitik, nobody gives a flying fuck whether or not there is a PRIDE parade in Tel Aviv or whatever - if they did, Saudi would be a pariah state!

Israel simply has a good cost/benefit ratio for them.

And while that sounds horrible (it is!), it also pretty clearly lays out what needs to happen for this to change: the cost/benefit calculation needs shifting!

To some extent, mass public outrage is achieving some movement of that needle (as, ironically, is mass public outrage over mass public outrage). Hence the call for "humanitarian pauses", which clearly serves the purpose of maintaining some semblance of a moral conscience.

That said, if you think it through: "humanitarian pauses" are a downright cynical proposal: "let us keep people alive for long enough so they can die of bombs instead of starvation", basically!

Hi, That’s an interesting point. How does the cost benefit change? I understand that is difficult to do it in the US given there is a lot of direct pro Israeli lobbying that occurs but the UK doesn’t seem to have such a thing or at least not in the same scale. How could it possibly change?

backtowinter · 06/11/2023 22:15

The uk government has no power or real influence anymore I don't think

In practical terms, how would a ceasefire work. Would
Hamas also agree or is it a one sided ceasefire?

erlangshen · 06/11/2023 22:27

HeidiInTheBigCity · 06/11/2023 21:08

... despite the fact that everyone and their grandma knows that a UNGA vote is practically meaningless, so long as the UNSC does not follow up with something binding ...

yes, its not binding but it does show where each country stands on this matter.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 06/11/2023 22:32

erlangshen · 06/11/2023 22:27

yes, its not binding but it does show where each country stands on this matter.

Oh, but, I agree!

I was not meaning to be dismissive - I meant to call out every government that could not even bring itself to vote "yes" when it was never going to have any more than "symbolic" weight, anyway!

Coughingdodger · 06/11/2023 22:32

HeidiInTheBigCity · 06/11/2023 11:38

As much as I hate to agree with it, yes, this sums it up quite neatly!

Geopolitically speaking, Israel serves a couple of useful roles to the so-called "West", ranging from its function as a lightning rod for Arab sentiment to some less savoury stuff such as arming and training actors that would just not go down well domestically if the US, UK & Co. did it directly. And a lot of other stuff, too!

They might like to talk fluff about "oh, but shared values and whatnot", but, really, in the world of realpolitik, nobody gives a flying fuck whether or not there is a PRIDE parade in Tel Aviv or whatever - if they did, Saudi would be a pariah state!

Israel simply has a good cost/benefit ratio for them.

And while that sounds horrible (it is!), it also pretty clearly lays out what needs to happen for this to change: the cost/benefit calculation needs shifting!

To some extent, mass public outrage is achieving some movement of that needle (as, ironically, is mass public outrage over mass public outrage). Hence the call for "humanitarian pauses", which clearly serves the purpose of maintaining some semblance of a moral conscience.

That said, if you think it through: "humanitarian pauses" are a downright cynical proposal: "let us keep people alive for long enough so they can die of bombs instead of starvation", basically!

Gosh this is dismaying.

Struggggggling · 07/11/2023 00:38

It's OK, in 100 years our children will read about it in books and write a report on how we allowed this to happen

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