Sinister move by UK Govt to brand "undermining UK values" as "extremism"

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Sad and shocked at this totalitarian move by the UK govt to bring in legislation that brands anyone "undermining" official UK position on issues such as Israel / Palestine as "extremist".

I would say the govt here are the ones that are being extremist! That said given the current cabinet lineup, sadly I am not that surprised although I am deeply disturbed.

If this comes through we are one step closer to a fascist state.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/04/plans-to-redefine-extremism-would-include-undermining-uk-values

Cruella Braverman no doubt.

Hey Cruella, this country is a shithole that supports genocide and human rights abuses. C'mon and send me on a Prevent Course right now 😂😂😂

Yep, it's got Cruella written all over it! The same woman who apparently wants to clamp down on homeless people in tents.

And we thought Priti Patel was bad...!

The documents state: “Extremism is the promotion or advancement of any ideology which aims to overturn or undermine the UK’s system of parliamentary democracy, its institutions and values.”

That's funny. I find this policy to be aiming to undermine and overturn UK's values.

You're absolutely correct. This policy would undermine the UK's supposed democracy in and of itself.

This doesn't surprise me. There has been a lot of work done in recent years to limit people's freedom of assembly and the right to peaceful protest.

They obviously haven't thought this one through 🤦🏻‍♀️

This kind of censorship is happening in many supposedly democratic countries. The problem is that there are enough people who are happy to accept losing their own freedoms if it means people they don't like are silenced.

@FOJN yes it appears to be going on in many places

has anyone also seen the French move to to make Zionism criticism a criminal offence:

https://tvpworld.com/73868393/french-senators-propose-bill-to-make-zionism-criticism-a-criminal-offence

You're absolutely correct. This policy would undermine the UK's supposed democracy in and of itself.

What an absolute outrage,

The writing was on the wall when the peaceful protesters at the coronation, holding the 'Not My King' placards were arrested and detained - along with a tourist from abroad who had actually travelled here to celebrate the coronation but had committed the appalling crime of happening to be standing quite near to some other people in a very big city.

Is there a specific name to describe a supposedly 'democratic' country where nobody is ever allowed to vote for the leader at the top, and they are not even allowed to mildly express their dissatisfaction with this fact?

@FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper

Totally agree. I think the word you are looking for is totalitarian regime.

It is a dark time for freedom of speech and democracy.

What could possibly go wrong? 🤦🏻‍♀️

I think this is fine. If you don’t protect democratic values they will die. Totalitarianism/theocracy/anarchy are the human defaults.

@Bobslug how is legislating against people who challenge UK policy "protecting democracy"? Sounds more like fascism to me.

That's been a part of the Prevent Duty for a while I think - one part of radicalisation is defined as being against democracy, rule of law and (I think it was) individual liberty.

Ironic and shocking how clamping down on freedom of speech, the right to protest and campaign etc is seen as "protecting democracy" when in reality it is the exact opposite.

oh and my caveat, I do not mean people should be able to promote terrorism.

But thats on your definition of terrorism?
Look at all the 'free speech for Hamas at present.

@MyHornCanPierceTheSky entirely predictable bot style response there trying to derail the thread.

The overwhelming vast majority of people protesting are Pro-Palestine, pro ceasefire, pro Palestinian human rights, and anti Israeli govt's war. Their campaigning has nothing to do with "supporting Hamas". But maybe you have swallowed the Daily Mail and right wing press agenda believing it is the accurate truth (let us not forget they supported Hitler in the run up to world war two).

Conflating the marches etc with support for Hamas is a depressing, untruthful smear campaign that seeks to distract from the horrific war crimes Israeli govt commits on a daily basis against innocent Palestinian civilians in their millions. Not to mention the land stealing, petty humiliations and decades of intimidation and injustices in human rights Israeli govt commits towards palestinians on a daily basis.

But it is convenient to ignore those isn't it, with a quick smear. You also conveniently forget to mention the thousands of Jewish people marching for peace and protesting against the same or the fact that many of the marches etc are organised by Jewish anti war groups. None of these people are pro Hamas.

And it's also easy to conveniently ignore that Israeli Jewish people are brutally beaten by the IDF (plenty of video evidence online) because they dare to protest against the Israeli govt brutality.

And I'll repeat again that I do not condone Hamas, in case you missed it.

Why is the constant use of "you're a daily mail bot because I don't like what you say' so boringly prevalent these days? (Oh left wing approach)
Terrorism is widely subjective, Mandela was once referred to a a terrorist by the US government.

So if we don’t agree with government policy, we are terrorists?
Are they doing this so they can arrest the Labour MPs and thrown them in jail like they do in Russia and China?

@MyHornCanPierceTheSky by your logic then re Mandela, protesting against the war crimes is clearly advisable, as it will eventually work and free the Palestinians? And yes I am pro Mandela and pro the right to protest against war crimes.

How about turn what you said around - "look at all the open support for war crimes the last few weeks, let's clamp down on that".

I don't condone fascism, but if you're looking at it in these terms, maybe the ones being clamped down on should be the pro-war crime agenda pushers, as they seem to think collective punishment, civilian murder and war crimes are somehow ok to promote and justify.

I can't believe in 2023 supporting 1000s of men, women and children being killed, supporting 10s of 1000s of people being injured, supporting 100s of 1000s of homes being destroyed, supporting the traumatisation of a whole generation of children, supporting the killing of UN workers, medics and journalists is now what British values are. It makes me wonder what we have to fear living in a country beside the UK. I'm so glad to live in a country that has a moral code, that stands up and speaks out when a clear wrong doing is happening.

We are living in a dystopian novel. Where’s George Orwell to document all this?

@DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz @OuiOuiKitty

It is so sad and scary. "Disagree with the government, and we will brand you an extremist". e.g. a fascist state.

You also have to ask, who are the real "extremists" here?

The ones pushing for human rights, ceasefire and an end to collective punishment or the ones openly supporting war crimes, mass civilian murder and IDF brutality, trying to smear anyone who dares have a different opinion?

Plenty of "extremists" here on MN pushing the latter.