Curious how many knew that Palestinians are stateless?

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Just wondering how many of you knew that Palestinians are stateless? Furthermore those that leave lose their right to return.

Is that why there were so many people there with British and other status? Keeping a another nationality as they cannot actually be Palestinian? Iyswim.

It’s an unsustainable and outrageous and ridiculous situation- and I don’t know when or where we missed an opportunity to put it right.

How can Israel ignore the atrocity last month, how can the world ignore the current atrocities.
How can anyone support what Hamas did, regardless of the context.

How would UK react if the IRA had committed a similar scale attack?

I’m just bewildered by the impossibility of it all.

This is an interesting article:

Why Palestinians fear that if they leave northern Gaza they may never be able to return
Many worry that Israel’s response to Hamas’ terrorist attack will result in Palestinians’ being permanently expelled from Gaza, stirring painful memories of the “Nakba.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/palestinians-fear-leave-northern-gaza-may-never-able-return-rcna120950

"...“Nakba,” or “catastrophe,” a reference to the forced removal of an estimated 750,000 Palestinians from their homes when Israel was founded in 1948. They see it as a core element of their identity. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, some Jewish militias massacred Palestinian civilians, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported, and hundreds of thousands of them were forced to flee their homes, according to the United Nations."

"“This is a sort of a collective traumatic event in the minds of most Palestinians,” said historian Rashid Khalidi, the Edward Said Professor of Modern Arab Studies at Columbia University. “Back in 1948, the majority of the Arab population of Palestine was actually driven from their homes, and these are things that people remember hearing from their grandparents and their parents.”

Some Israelis have acknowledged that the Nakba occurred, said Daniel Seidemann, an Israeli attorney who supports a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. “For years, Israelis were in denial about the existence of the Nakba. It’s our original sin,” Seidemann said. The Israeli right flatly rejects that view."

"An estimated 5.9 million Palestinians are refugees today as a result of the 1948 conflict, including their descendants, according to the U.N. Multiple human rights groups and the U.N. have called for the return of Palestinian refugees to their homes, but 75 years later, many haven’t been able to do so.
The fear of not being able to return has made Gazans extremely hesitant to leave their homes. They also say travel south presents its own risks and peril as Israel intensifies strikes. As of Sunday, Israel has hit dozens of targets in the south since Oct. 13, The New York Times reported."

I think Jordan allows them nationality and that is it.

Not enough attention is given to how badly the Arab states treat the Palestinians.

Imagine if Poland had refused to let Ukrainians refugees leave during the Russian invasion and instead insist they stay as cannon fodder otherwise the Russians will take the land. It is a disgrace.

Innocent women and children are kept in the line of fire as their ‘friends’ would prefer they are martyred than for the other side to win.

Most Israeli jews come from neighbouring counties where they were kicked out post 1948. They are not sitting in refugeee camps waiting to return to Iran. No, they are allowed to move on with their lives. The Palestinians deserve the same.

There have been many displaced people over the last 70 years, including some in my family. In no instance where the displaced kept in a permanent refugee camp and denied citizenship. This just leads to a never ending war.

This article describes the history of the conflict quite well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-44124396

I didn't know any state which allowed Palestinians citizenship so I looked it up and found this. It seems that Palestinian refugees after 1948 were given Jordanian citizenship but the rules for those arriving after 1967 are different.

www.al-monitor.com/originals/2016/02/jordan-work-permits-palestinian-refugees.html

I found this, when I was trying to educate myself a little.

It’s a sad article

https://amp.dw.com/en/gaza-migrants-embarking-on-a-dangerous-journey-to-europe/a-66940196

Ironically, the Palestinians can become U.K. citizens but not citizens of other Arab countries.

I too wondered why so many of them were british citizens.

@Savourycrepe thats a really good comparison, ukraine/poland. All the neighbouring arab countries and Iran have to do is temporarily take them in. And they won't even do that.

Exactly.

It is odd how many pro-Palestinian supporters don’t want Egypt to open the border, even though that would allow the people to flee the fighting between Hamas and Israel.

Will there be any placards asking Egypt to open the border on the marches today?

It is odd how many pro-Palestinian supporters don’t want Egypt to open the border, even though that would allow the people to flee the fighting between Hamas and Israel

What makes you say that?!

Like the Kurds. And possibly the Armenians the way things are looking.

On the IRA analogy - the IRA , UDA / UVF and indeed the British Army and Police often justified their killings by referring to some previous violence carried out by their opponents.

The late John Hume MP called this ' whataboutery' or ' the politics of the last atrocity '. Someone, somewhere, somehow has to break this cycle. Power sharing in Northern Ireland is a bit messy. It's not a perfect solution, far from it . But it's better than what went before?

Israel/ Palestine has not reached this stage yet it would appear. There are no John Humes around today.

Happy to be proved wrong.

It would be lovely to see placards asking

1. Egypt to open the border so that people can flee the fighting

2 for the hostages to be released

3 for the Hamas leaders who committed mass murder on 7 October to be imprisoned/deposed.

Anyone who is in favour of the Palestinians should ask for all of these things.

As we have been told many times, the demonstrators are pro-Palestinian not pro-Hamas. These are all clearly in the interests of the Palestinian people.

It would be good if Palestinians were given the option to leave but they're caught between a rock and a hard place. If they flee history shows that they are unlikely to ever get back and Israel will move in and occupy Gaza. They are also stateless so no passports they'll be stuck in a refugee camp in Egypt indefinitely.

Of course not.
It doesn't fit with people's hatred.

You're right why sit on refugee camps when they can steal land and homes.

It is odd how many pro-Palestinian supporters don’t want Egypt to open the border, even though that would allow the people to flee the fighting between Hamas and Israel

I think most people would say if Palestinians want to leave they should be able to. The thing is no one wants to be complicit in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. That's what it would be if people were forced to flee and never allowed to return home. It's a shit choice for Palestinians really isn't it, die or be ethnically cleansed from your land. Really the answer is a ceasefire(which is what protests are calling for). That way no body has to die and the world isn't complicit in Israels ethnic cleansing. If Palestinians had the right of return it would be fine, look at all the Ukrainians who left and either moved back or can back to visit, that's great, that's choice. Palestinians should have the same right of seld determination but Israel denies them that.

The Egyptian government are not saying that the Palestinians should be allowed to leave.

The Hamas government in Gaza is a terrorist death cult. Egypt is not allowing those who want to flee the fighting to do so. It suggests that they would rather the Palestinians are made martyrs than live.

The same has been done for the entire Palestinian population since 1948/9. Rather than allowing them to settle, Arab states have confined them to permanent refugee status. It is horrific.

Some of the comments on this thread literally re writing history. The ultimate proof that Palestinians are being well and truly gaslit.

Anyone who is in favour of the Palestinians should ask for all of these things.

True. But I thought you said that Pro-Palestinian people didn’t want the border with Egypt opened. I would imagine most do.

Like what? I’m struggling to follow

If you are ignorant- as I am- you miss a lot. It’s really helpful if people spell out what they mean.

I knew. They also cannot get their citizenship back by marrying an Israeli citizen & naturalising. Most Palestinians lost or their recent ancestors lost their Israeli citizenship during the nakba, naksa and gradual post 1967 forced removal from their homes/lands deemed to be part of Israel to the refugee camps in Gaza and West Bank.

“JAFFA, March 10 (Reuters) - Israel’s parliament on Thursday passed a law denying naturalization to Palestinians from the occupied West Bank or Gaza married to Israeli citizens, forcing thousands of Palestinian families to either emigrate or live apart.
The so-called citizenship law passed just before the Knesset disbanded for a holiday recess by a 45-15 majority vote that crossed coalition-opposition lines.
It replaced a similar temporary order that first passed during the height of a Palestinian uprising in 2003 and was renewed annually until it expired last July, when the Knesset failed to secure a simple majority needed to extend it.

Proponents say the law helps ensure Israel's security and maintains its "Jewish character".
Some Knesset members said it was intended to prevent a gradual right of return for Palestinian refugees who were driven from their homes or fled during the 1948 war surrounding Israel's creation - all while Israel prepares to take in thousands of Ukrainian refugees.
"The State of Israel is Jewish and so it will remain," said Simcha Rothman of the far-right Religious Zionism party, a member of the opposition who brought the law forward with Interior Minister Ayelet Shaked. "Today, God willing, Israel's defensive shield will be significantly strengthened," he told the Knesset hours before the vote.

However, critics say the law discriminates against Israel's 21% Arab minority - who are Palestinian by heritage and Israeli by citizenship - by barring them from extending citizenship and permanent residency rights to Palestinian spouses.
"It comes off as more xenophobic or racist (than other laws) because it’s not only giving extra rights and privileges to Jewish people, but also preventing certain basic rights only from the Arab population," said Reut Shaer, a lawyer with the Association of Civil Rights in Israel.

The law also bars the unification of Israeli citizens or residents and spouses from "enemy states", such as Lebanon, Syria and Iran. But it mostly affects Palestinian women and children, said Shaer.
It is a form of "collective punishment", she added, because it infringes on the rights of an entire population based on the racist assumption that they are all prone to terrorism.
Israel captured East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza in the 1967 Middle East war. It applies different sets of rules for Jews and Palestinians under its control.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses-2022-03-10/