What was Hamas Strategy here?

[eardefender]

I am assuming that Hamas are not stupid.

I came across a journalist called Haviv Rettig Ur. A political correspondent for the Times of Israel.

He made an interesting point (excuse my clumsy paraphrasing here) that due to the terror attacks the left in Israel has now abandoned a path to a two state solution (although i am aware that Hamas has always rejected this). His reasoning was that the attacks had woken the left to the prospect of having another terrorist run state in the west bank as Gaza became. That Israelis now thought that they had conceded ground in the north and that had led to a vacuum which had been filled by Hezbollah. They then conceded ground in Gaza when they pulled out in 2005 and this vacuum was filled by Hamas.
They now look to the West Bank which is much larger than Gaza and has direct access to fire rockets and can harm Israelis from a high vantage point over the whole of Israel. Therefore many are pulling back from wanting to entertain the idea of two states.

So Hamas has united Israel, where before there was division, Possibly killed Israeli support for a two state solution on the grounds of Israeli safety.

He also said there was trade with Israel and Gaza, some manufacturing would be done in Gaza, people in Gaza worked in Israel.

Now the border will be closed. I find this so sad, no more trade or Jobs with Gaza for Gazans. Israel understandably will not want to open that border again as it is clearly unsafe to do so and a huge security risk.

So Garzans have lost jobs and income, electricity and water from Israel. the north is flattened. They now will have to rely on foreign aid through the Egyptian crossing only. Do Egypt want their country to be the only crossing to Gaza and all that entails. I don't think so.

That Hamas stockpiled fuel etc for themselves shows that they knew there would be a closure of the border and utilities would be turned off.

Did they think this would ignite sympathetic Islamic countries to rise up against Israel and declare war. If so then that hasn't happened. Were they expecting more help from those they perceive as their allies. Egypt and Jordan have apparently said no to any Palestinian refugees (i am not blaming them for that, they don't want Hamas in their countries). The support for Hamas has been noise and talk but not perhaps the military support they were hoping for.

Can anyone provide insight and analysis as to what it is that Hamas wanted to happen from this attack. I cannot see how it has benefited them or their cause. The consequences are horrific.

That's capitalism in places where workers are plentiful, human rights are poor and birth rates are high.

Human life isn't valued in the same way. Humans are free to be exploited for financial gain.

Life is harsher and crueller.

I don't think it's connected.

@pickledandpuzzled no wonder you are puzzled what a stu**id question.

those marching want Justice for Palestinian people. Their basic rights as humans, im clearly talking to a monster if I have to explain that to you

Israel never had or had a right to start this war. They are the occupiers and occupiers have no land. That is international law- to all of you in denial- you won’t understand it unless it happens to you.

people come take over your country. yes you all live peacefully side by side to begin with but they get greedy and soon, the country as you knew it is no longer there. you are now confined to a strip and treated like crap. Of course you all would be happy for that to happen and live that way with no anger right? Hypocrites

Israel never had or had a right to start this war. They are the occupiers and occupiers have no land. That is international law- to all of you in denial- you won’t understand it unless it happens to you.

And attitudes like this will keep the conflict going and the children dying.

Until there is acceptance of Israel's right to exist, this will rinse and repeat.

I'm assuming from this post that there isn't much if any concern around the 7 October events.

Sadly, the idea that it started out as a military operation for Hamas gain hostages for a swap, followed by a cock-up on both sides is very believable. Its tempting to think of them as evil, calculating masterminds, but it's entirely possible that events are spiraling out of control for the terrorist group, too.

On a practical basis, given that Hamas fighters (not the leadership) are embedded in Gaza, their families and friends must be hurting from the blockade, too. There will be pressure within the city for Hamas to do something about the awful conditions by facilitating a prisoner swap.

@Namedmyself but what does that look like? Right now, practically?

Hamas raided Israel, murdered and kidnapped people. What should have happened next?

And you know what? Borders shift and are redrawn. Wars are fought, territories won and lost, people displaced.

We are where we are now, is the past really worth having a shit present for?

And you know what? Borders shift and are redrawn. Wars are fought, territories won and lost, people displaced

But presumably your attitude wouldn’t be “so what?” if all that happened to Israel?

But presumably your attitude wouldn’t be “so what?” if all that happened to Israel?

I'm not "so what", I think that people need to prioritise peace and coexistence over historical grievances that cause misery and bloodshed.

Hamas raided Israel, murdered and kidnapped people. What should have happened next?

If your still talking about the Free Palestine march’s then the answer would be anything that stops a humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza.

One would hope Israel can actually get rid of Hamas and aren’t just trying to bomb them into temporary submission.

@Namedmyself

"Israel never had or had a right to start this war. They are the occupiers and occupiers have no land. That is international law- to all of you in denial- you won’t understand it unless it happens to you. "

+++

Could you clarify what land you are referring to that Israel occupies: the land in which the state of Israel sits, the West Bank or Gaza or all of the above?

RedToothBrush
Your post was very interesting, thank you.

;

Judging by the latest reports, it doesn't really matter what Hamas wanted now. The IDF have gone into Northern Gaza mob-handed and the casualties will be enormous. There definitely seems to be an element of "fuck it, the world thinks we're evil anyway and the Palestinians will always attack us, so we may as well clear house as best we can. We've got nothing to lose."

It looks like Hamas' hostages are now collateral damage, as is everyone trapped in the enclave. :-(

I agree with quite a bit in your opening post. However much ignorance and sympathy shown over why Hamas did what they did on mn. People who Hamas would gladly slaughter have rushed in with whataboutery, no wonder remarks, and general thinly veiled or not so in some cases hatred for Israel and/or Jewish people.

The only truly democracy in the middle East attacked by people who have the freedom and luxury not to worry about being female, gay, outspoken etc in the West. An awful lot of fake news spreading as well.

No I'm not going to share links to the sentiments I've seen because if you haven't see it then you are blind or have the same inbeded hatred.

I agree. I think the only fair solution at this stage is to cut Israel in half and give half each. No bulldozing of infrastructure, no hoarding of resources etc. If you are on the wrong side you just get up and walk out of you home and move to the other side.

Who occupied the land inhabited by Jewish people before islamic colonisation after 665(ish)?

In the most dreadful way, the actions of Hamas, and then of the Israeli military have put the urgent need for a Palestinian state back on the agenda, at least on the international stage.
This is probably an unintended consequence for both. And maybe both of them will successfully resist this imperative.
Basically it's the only way Israelis will get to live in peace, and Palestinians to live with dignity.
I think this is the opposite conclusion your journalist has come to.

@RedToothBrush thanks for that interesting post. Soon after the Oct 7 attack there was a lot of talK about Israel’s ill-preparedness. it makes sense that the attack was more ‘successful’ than expected.

The people of Palestine are pawns/collateral damage to Hamas and Iran. Literal human shields to Hamas. It is sad that those marching for Palestine in comfortable western democracies are, in general, so focused on condemning Israel and only weakly, belatedly - or not at all - demanding the release of the hostages and a ceasefire from Hamas and Hezbollah.

If part of the intention behind the attacks was to foment distrust and division in the West they’ve been very successful.

Uh huh. Well good luck with that.

I hope ( but doubt) that Gaza won’t get a penny of Western aid.
Let the billionaire backers of Hamas and the wealth of the Arab oil countries sort out the mess of their making.

Oh I haven’t heard people claiming the low median age is due to all Gazans being killed young by Israel before - every piece I’ve heard has been a “Great Replacement” style piece bemoaning all these terrible Muslims breeding so fast and threatening Israel with their increasing numbers.

Both arguments are ridiculous for different reasons.

stop the process by which Saudi Arabia was going to recognise Israel

This imo.

Plus, you know, someone else wanted attention away from another ongoing war.

Isn't the Belfour Declaration to blame for the mess?