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Conflict in the Middle East

A (hypothetical) March for Peace. Would you join?

62 replies

hypotheticalmarchforpeace · 28/10/2023 11:33

If I had the organisational skills or influence (I don't) to organise a nationwide 'March for Peace', would you (hypothetically) sign up and join?

The marches which are happening are largely in support of one side or the other and the world is probably more divided than its ever been. My (hypothetical) march for peace would want to see peace-loving people from all sides walk together as human beings with the following non-partisan aims.

  1. Everyone who wants to see stability, security and a thriving economy with opportunities for all, in the Middle East is welcome to join
  1. The March would be calling on world leaders to dismantle/disempower militant, oppressive terror groups wherever they are found.
  1. Create a safe and secure homeland for Jewish people
  1. Create a safe and secure homeland for Palestinians

I obviously have very little idea on how these aims can be politically achieved but being fuzzy on the details has never stopped a March from happening before!

This is a genuine question because while I have personal views on this conflict, I actually (perhaps naively) want to live in a world where people can live free of violence and fear. For that reason I'm trying to be intentional about not adding to the division.

Is this a March you could join? What would you add to the aims (that is non-partisan)?

Also, if anyone knows how to actually organise a March like this (😂), count me in!

OP posts:
Springwillcome · 28/10/2023 22:29

No. Marches aren’t how peace happens. Marches are about anger and shouting and stoking division. Nothing good ever came of a march. I might do a sit-in for peace, or a singsong for peace, but not a march, no.

I’m finding the media’s salivating over and graphic depicting of the stories coming out of the Middle East quite repulsive, as is the virtue signalling as the online audience rushes to choose a side, as if we’re about to have some global phone-in about which side is the biggest baddie.

If you want to improve the world, volunteer for or donate to a charity. If you want to change the actions of your government, lobby your MP or go to a constituency surgery and persuade them they need to act. If you want peace, be peaceful. Don’t join the people chanting on the streets it never ends well.

Fawful · 28/10/2023 22:45

Indeed, @mollyfolk, and we mustn't forget there are people (other countries, parties and factions within Israel) who have been very actively stirring the pot too, so it's less difficult than it might seem for people to switch mindsets.
I think I heard Saheeda Warsi say today in the Leading podcast that Netanyahu had once calculated that it was in his interest for Hamas to win Gaza, as it then means that he can claim he has no legitimate Palestinian partner he can deal with, thus avoiding a two-state solution he may not want.
There'll be equally cynical calculations from the leaders of Hamas, especially if they live far away from Gaza in Qatar.
Not to mention that as far as I've read, historically it had been in the interest of France and the UK to play both sides against each other at the beginning of the creation of Israel.
Both Palestinians and Israeli have really been caught in the middle by disingenuous parties for so long.

Gingernaut · 28/10/2023 22:54

No

Too often, even the most well intentioned events are hijacked by 'extremists', who are often violent thugs, with no ideology, out to bait and violently confront the police

I wouldn't touch any public demo with a barge pole

I don't like violence and wouldn't want to be associated with it

Fawful · 28/10/2023 22:59

(Sayeeda, not Saheeda, sorry.)
What I mean is that it may be less the case of Israeli and Palestinians being very different people hating each other, and more the case of hatred having been stoked. I think both sides lived quite happily together not that long ago. But then it's always easy to make people resentful and to use that to gain power politically... As we've seen in the West recently.
Some of the replies on this thread make it sound like the two parties are doomed by an ancient hatred we are arrogant to hope we can understand and help sort out.

quantumbutterfly · 28/10/2023 22:59

Springwillcome · 28/10/2023 22:29

No. Marches aren’t how peace happens. Marches are about anger and shouting and stoking division. Nothing good ever came of a march. I might do a sit-in for peace, or a singsong for peace, but not a march, no.

I’m finding the media’s salivating over and graphic depicting of the stories coming out of the Middle East quite repulsive, as is the virtue signalling as the online audience rushes to choose a side, as if we’re about to have some global phone-in about which side is the biggest baddie.

If you want to improve the world, volunteer for or donate to a charity. If you want to change the actions of your government, lobby your MP or go to a constituency surgery and persuade them they need to act. If you want peace, be peaceful. Don’t join the people chanting on the streets it never ends well.

The Jarrow march was not about shouting and stoking division, it was a call to attention.
As I said before we in our own countries can have an influence on peace in our own countries.
The organisations I mentioned upthread are trying to find a peaceful way forward in their own countries of Palestine and Israel - together.

I am more than old enough to be cynical but it gains nothing.

ElizaMulvil · 28/10/2023 23:32

Yes, been on one today.

A variety of people spoke at the meeting. Jewish, Muslim, Atheists, British, Yemeni, Academics, Students, Green Party etc. etc. in favour of a ceasefire. No problems. Plenty of Jewish people in Israel and worldwide are very unhappy at the current political leadership under Netanayu as are many people in Gaza re Hamas and they both want to bring peace to both communities.

In 2005 the Palestinian negociator Erecat begged the Israeli first minister Olmert to use a battalion of Palestinian policemen formed in Jordan by the US and Jordan, to reinforce the security forces in Gaza. They couldn't get the agreement of the Israeli Government so Gaza was left to Hamas.

Unsurprisingly Gaza 'elected' Hamas in 2006. It was what the Israeli Government ( and Netanayu said so) wanted. No doubt expecting that Hamas would provoke a retaliation by Israel which would lead to the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from Gaza ( see the events of 7/10 etc.)

It is not in the interests of the people of either Israel or Gaza or the West Bank etc for there to be war. Negociations have to take place with people you dislike, hate, abhor, despise etc.

If we could get a Good Friday Agreement in Ireland after 900 years of bitter conflict, there has to be hope for Israel and Palestine.

There will be no peace or hope for either communities otherwise.

jojonono · 28/10/2023 23:41

to those suggesting Israelis protest, was shocked to read this earlier on reddit:

Israel okays the shooting of Jews if they protest the genocide.

"The government is slated to advance new measures that will allow police to use live fire against Israeli citizens who are blocking roads or entrances to towns during a “multi-front war,” the Kan public broadcaster reports.
Police will only need approval from a senior officer before opening fire under the loosened rules, Kan says, adding that Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara agreed to fast-track the legislation, which had been pushed by far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir earlier this year."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/cabinet-said-slated-to-okay-police-use-of-live-fire-against-protesters-blocking-roads-during-multi-front-war/

they are prepared to legislate to shoot their own citizens who protest. dark stuff.

Cabinet said slated to okay police use of live fire against protesters blocking roads during multi-front war

* * *

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/cabinet-said-slated-to-okay-police-use-of-live-fire-against-protesters-blocking-roads-during-multi-front-war

Ohlalalalala · 29/10/2023 18:32

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Blueggsandham · 29/10/2023 18:34

I'd join your march

eardefender · 29/10/2023 19:03

Having seen the Ukraine/Russia war unfold and now this one i am erring on the realistic side.
I think peace, prosperity and security can only be achieved in the world if we have strong armies and big defence budgets. Alliances, free speech and good borders.
A peace march is a lovely idea but we must remember what happened to 260 young peace loving people who were at a peace festival who were butchered and raped. So no I would not join the peace march I would think it more 'peaceful' to insist the government increases the defence budget and makes powerful friends with other countries who have big defence budgets.
You cant 'nice' people out of terrorism.

eardefender · 29/10/2023 19:12

@ElizaMulvil you cant negotiate with ISIS/Hamas. I am afraid that Hamas actions on 7th have shut the door on any peace negotiations. Hamas have been very vocal and clear with words and deeds that they don't want peace in any case.
The situation in NI is in my view less comparable. There were large areas of peace between both sides and intermarriage etc. Both terrorist groups reached out to each other to a certain extent. There was more cohesion between the two sides, that said the conflict still remains as we have seen even 25 years later.

Ohdearanotheryear · 01/11/2023 10:23

Gingernaut · 28/10/2023 22:54

No

Too often, even the most well intentioned events are hijacked by 'extremists', who are often violent thugs, with no ideology, out to bait and violently confront the police

I wouldn't touch any public demo with a barge pole

I don't like violence and wouldn't want to be associated with it

This.

The extremists feel validated and start singing and chanting things that we all know don't mean or show they want peace and others stand by and listen or some join in further validation of their cause.

Write to people that are in power. Sign petitions etc but wander along with extremists mingled in, not a chance.

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