IDF to bomb the Gaza Al-shifa hospital.

[LiveForPeace]

It sounds like it can't be true. Another hospital being bombed within inches of it and again blaming Hamas.

The first time they claimed it was a missfired rocket which has not been confirmed. Are they going to do the same again?

They have also warned people to leave this hospital which is a death sentence for them all.

Israel is lobbying so furiously against Hamas in order to distract from their atrocities. I saw this 'game' that is going viral in Israel called "Hamas or...". Very few people are believing this now, the pictures alone speak for themselves. Public opinion is changing, I've noticed all of the reporters now are commenting on Israel's "heavy handedness" and how it is not proportional at all.

This is so sickening. Analysis by the NY Times and Al Jazeera of the “misfired” Al Shifa rocket indicated the video was of a rocket fired from at least 2 miles away from the hospital. The claim that Hamas fired anything inches away from Al Shifa is an out and out lie. All the journalists have been camping around the exterior of Al Shifa…these are not Hamas. And they aren’t holding rockets but cameras. I think it’s some 53 journalists murdered so far by IDF.

IDF speaks with a forked tongue, when residential buildings and churches and mosques are hit, killing civilians they swear up and down they are doing precision targeting. But when they hit a farmhouse in a semi-rural part of Gaza where an Al Jazeera journalist bureau chiefs entire family were sheltering they then say, oh no, we didn’t target that farm house. Not us. We aren’t doing any targeting. Both cannot be true IDF if you really are trying to avoid civilian deaths. Either you know exactly what and who in Hamas you are striking or it is indiscriminate mass bombing. I think we know now that not only are civilians being subjected to indiscriminate mass bombings but other civilians are being deliberately targeted as well.

Now IDF has briefed an obvious CGI mock-up of what they claim is a Hamas HQ in the hospital (utter rot) to justify pancaking it and every harmless innocent civilian in there- including wounded children on ventilators, babies in incubators, mothers fighting for their lives.

I also think it’s foul play for Israel to include in the Israeli “civilian” death toll the hundreds of Israeli soldier casualties- it is blurring the line between solider combatant and non-combatant civilian. The same isn’t happening on the Palestinian civilian death toll- it’s trying to make things look more even than they are.

If officials are going to count the combatant casualties they should be their own category, separate from civilians.

Lets Not Forget the 200 Israeli Captives in Gaza:

This was published this morning on Al Jazeera:
”Israeli captives’ families demand government explanation of intensified Gaza onslaughtFamilies of Israeli hostages held by Hamas fighters in Gaza have demanded an immediate government explanation about the fate of the captives after the army intensified strikes on the Palestinian territory.
The main group representing more than 200 people believed abducted in the October 7 attacks by Hamas sought an immediate meeting with ministers.
The Hostages and Missing Families Forum said in a statement that relatives were angry over the “absolute uncertainty regarding the fate of the hostages held (in Gaza), who were also subject to the heavy bombings”.

I stand with these families as well as the Palestinians….the actions of Israel via IDF have already killed an estimated 20 captives. I don’t understand why Israel rejected the UN resolution for a humanitarian pause in hostilities because the UN had brokered as part of that Hamas agreement to release of all the Israeli captives. If I were in charge, I’d be like sure, I’ll stop hostilities for 48hrs to get the captives out and to let out foreign nationals trapped in Gaza. But no, it was rejected with comments like the UN is “defending Nazi terrorists”?

The families, the Israeli captives deserve better than this as do all the Palestinian civilians trapped in Gaza.

It is so scary what is happening. All forms of communication have been cut and we are all sat here allowing this as a nation. I feel so sick.

What atrocities will happen and why are they heavily punishing civilians.

Now IDF has briefed an obvious CGI mock-up of what they claim is a Hamas HQ in the hospital (utter rot)

Just to pick up on this point, the Hamas HQ under the Al Shifa hospital has been an open secret for many years. The IDF know what is underneath the hospital because the Israelis built it, before their withdrawal from Gaza.
This article from nearly ten years ago discusses it in more detail:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed

Before the inevitable barrage of accusations that I obviously support the bombing of innocent civilians begins- I don’t.

I’m not sure we can trust Tablet Magazine as they have been caught promoting conspiracy theories in the past. The secret Hamas HQ under a hospital sounds very conspiracy theory to me.

“In review, Tablet publishes news and analysis related to Jewish issues in the United States and worldwide. Most content is original and utilizes moderate loaded language, such as this The End of Citizenship. In another story, they promote the right-wing conspiracy theory that Fact-Checkers are a “governmental regulatory agency” Invasion of the Fact-Checkers. This story, like most, uses credible sources such as Politico and Columbia Journalism Review.”
”We also rate them Mostly Factual in reporting rather than High due to the promotion of conspiracy theories despite a clean third-party fact check record.”
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/tablet-magazine/

The Tablet Magazine link you posted is an article which has zero photographic evidence of this Hamas HQ under the hospital. In fact the most damming evidence they could find was a photo of a Palestinian woman hanging out her laundry to dry. The laundry isn’t even military clothing, unless Hamas likes to wear pink shorts?

How could there be any photographic evidence? Would Hamas invite them in for a photo shoot?

It’s fair to dissect the “mostly factual” nature of The Tablet’s reporting, I’m sure they’re as biased as any other publication, but this article is based on other credible sources. I think calling it a conspiracy theory is really a stretch. It’s entirely plausible that Hamas have an important operations centre under the hospital. The Israelis built the hospital in 1983, including the secure underground operating room and tunnel network, the IDF clearly have the plans to the building. It’s not a conspiracy theory and it’s not new information that Hamas uses Al Shifa to meet the media and have a significant presence in the hospital. Why do you think they are there?

It’s been referred to in other publications such as The Washington Post and the New York Times. Amnesty makes reference to Hamas interrogating and torturing prisoners at Al Shifa Hospital as far back as 2014. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

“On July 15, for example, William Booth of the Washington Post wrote that the hospital “has become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.” Back in 2006, PBS even aired a documentary showing how gunmen roam the halls of the hospital, intimidate the staff, and deny them access to protected locations within the building—where the camera crew was obviously prohibited from filming.”

From Human Rights Watch in 2007 https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
After Hamas fighters killed Fatah intelligence officer Yasir Bakar, Fatah gunmen began firing mortars and rocket-propelled grenades at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, drawing Hamas fire from inside the building, killing one Hamas and one Fatah fighter.

From the BMJ, via the National Library of Medecine in 2007:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
“Witnesses have said that some injured people coming for hospital treatment have been shot by Hamas militants inside hospitals.”
Juma Saka, a doctor in Shifa Hospital, Gaza's main hospital:
“The medical staff are suffering from fear and terror, particularly of the Hamas fighters, who are in every corner of the hospital.”

Hamas have been in the hospital for years, why are they there?

Just to be absolutely clear again, I do not support or justify the bombing of innocent civilians but I question why it’s necessary to consistently deny and downplay Hamas’s operations in order to condemn the IDF’s.

How could there be any photographic evidence?
I think it is fair to ask why is there no photographic evidence of an underground military communications and command HQ centre that Israel says it built? If Israel built it, then they must have some evidence of it, yes? Something a little more concrete than CGI graphics that look like it’s from the SIMs game.

I don’t dispute the occasional presence of Hamas fighters within the hospital 15yrs ago, but it’s a massive leap to deduce they now have some sort of underground HQ under the hospital that Israel built. And why would the IDF build a military HQ for themselves under a hospital? It lacks all credibility that they would do it, that the IDF would use an entire hospital as a human shield, that’s what terrorists do, not modern armies. And even if IDF had, why would the IDF be so stupid as to leave a fully equipped underground HQ totally intact with a big welcome mat for Hamas to just move in when they vacated Gaza?

I remain skeptical until I see cold hard evidence.

I’m relatively sure this is a wind up, but sure, ok. Unless you didn’t read the article, you’d know that it says the Israelis built a secure underground operating room- as in an operating theatre, for surgery- and a tunnel network, which is not actually uncommon, hospitals often have tunnel systems. I don’t understand how you’ve extrapolated from this that the Israelis say they built an “underground military communications and command HQ” and then should have taken photos of it, which you’d like to see.

Hamas are using these underground structures under the hospital as an HQ. It’s not really a leap, it’s been an open secret in journalist and intelligence communities for years. If you’re not convinced I’m ok with that, your flamboyant misinterpretation was quite entertaining. (Overplayed it a bit with the human shield assertion though.)

I read the article. Again, where are the photos or video or schematics- anything of the basement complex Israel says it built? The article has no Israeli source for this claim that this even exists. How can we even begin to think there is an underground HQ for Hamas under Al Shifa hospital without at least the existence of basement “bunker” rooms suitable for a HQ fact checked?

Why does Table Magazine have this in its article:
“The fact that Hamas has closed the border and will not let journalists in or out of Gaza…”

Why does Table Magazine say this:
”What Hamas has done, therefore, is to turn Shifa Hospital into a Hollywood sound-stage filled with real, live war victims who are used to score propaganda points,..”

The media bias check confirming they’d promoted a conspiracy theory only last year has me even more doubtful of the quality of their reporting in 2014.

And yet, knowing all this, the IDF didn’t manage to takeout that Hamas HQ the day after the terrorist attacks? With their brilliant precision bombing (that has been going as long as I’ve listened to the live stream).

I agree if under Al Shifa is where the Hamas HQ is & has been for ages such that it’s not a secret, then why didn’t they send in a Mossad strike team? Sneak in, storm the tunnel, toss in some stun gas grenades, then go in and clear? Rescue a few hostages hopefully, everyone in the hospital above is unharmed and ok. You don’t always have to kill human shields to get to a target, there are ways around.

Why would IDF have bombed all of Gaza everywhere except this apparently well known Hamas HQ?

Mossad is one of the top special forces in the world. It would be easier than other missions they have done.

Or maybe, IDF don’t know where the HQ is, if there is one. Hamas may have decentralised command as most terrorists do. It’s not likely Hamas would stick to the same place since 2005 like sitting ducks, they are known to be highly mobile.

Well if this is true then the "precision bombing" is an utter lie. They need to send their men in and bring down Hamas, which they've said is the aim all along. If they know where the HQ is they have no excuse not to storm it!