I blame the United Nations

[mushti]

The whole sorry mess in Gaza is all the fault of the United Nations. If UNRWA hadn't been created to provide for them, the Palestinians would have sorted their shit out decades ago, just like every other refugee situation from the second world war.

United Nations still providing for Polish refugees? No.

United Nations still providing for Indian refugees? No.

United Nations still provided for Jewish refugees? No.

Never mind Hamas, let's kick the UN out of Gaza. The problem will be fixed within six months.

I blame the UN for not taking over the running of Gaza and de-arming Hamas years ago. If they actually wanted to they could have stopped this conflict in 2007. However they have complained constantly about Israel not babysitting a land mass that keep firing weapons at them. Instead the should just have taken responsibility.

Plus yes op Gaza should not need a babysitter by now. However things haven't turned out like that. So a neutral third party should be doing the job properly and not just promoting or feeding bad behaviour. Gaza didn't need all the money it has had over the years. It needed stability, an end to a violent regime and building of a future. The UN are complicit to the crimes done on Israeli and Palestinian civilians.

I was thinking about this earlier

The UN is only as powerful as the member states allow it to be, in mutual co-operation with one another, If they can't agree then nothing happens and it becomes just a talking shop. Even if they do agree the power of veto held by only some privileged countries can over-rule the concensus

So it's hard for the UN to be effective

Missed the cut-off for editing

Agree with PP above that a UN Peacekeeping force maybe would have been more helpful in the past rather than pouring aid into a leaky bucket for decades. I've no idea but imagine that agreeing to that would would have been contentious/never actioned whatever

But also as with so much of this situation hindsight is a marvellous thing and pre-occupation with a tragic past which cannot be changed [only mourned] doesn't move anything forward in a positive way

Anyway the UN relief are saying their warehouses are now empty and they don't think they will able to carry on much beyond the next 2 days

So maybe you'll get your wish to see them gone

Poland and India aren't occupied though.

And Gaza is under blockade with Israel restricting work, water and other infrastructure. In the West Bank they destroy orchards and farms to destroy livelihoods. They also steal people's homes and land. And kill a lot of people even in "peace time".

So this might be the reason that the Occupied Territories are a mess.

Gaza gets help from the UN.

Israel gets billions from the US. Biggest recipient of aid from the US since WW2.

The Arab nations, and presumably any majority-muslim countries, would veto that in the UN. After the Arabs lost the war to stop the Jews getting their own state, the Arab League passed a resolution in 1952 'which stipulated that the League's policy towards the Palestinian refugees needed to be based on the principle of their eventual return, and guarded against naturalisation.'

No one would have done anything similar for the many other sets of refugees in the 20th century. The Palestinians are a unique political tool for Israel's neighbours to continue the war against Jewish independence. Or at least to be seen to do so enough to keep their own public happy.

Yes it needs a third party to take funds and aid without the threat of Hamas

That’s the hard part still, getting rid of Hamas

Poland and India aren't occupied though

neither Gaza nor the West Bank were “occupied” from 1948 to 1967, or alternatively, if you consider they were, it was by friendly Arab Muslim states of Egypt and Jordan.

thats precisely my point. The problem should have been settled then; that it wasn’t is the fault of the UN, ably assisted by the Arab regimes.

The UN exists to stop WWIII. Not happened just yet, so hard to really say they're not doing their job.

Do you think the fact that roughly half the population became displaced/refugees might be relevant?

What is relevant is that 700,000 Jewish refugees were absorbed and resettled by the nascent state of Israel. There are no longer Iraqi, Syrian, Moroccan or Algerian Jewish refugees in Israel. Just proud Israeli Jews with Iraqi, Syrian Morocan and Algerian heritage.

There has been a Palestinian state, since 1922 - it's called Jordan. The west bank could have annexed itself to Jordan, or created a new state. And there could have been at least one more Palestinian state, in Gaza, supported by Egypt, any time from 1948 to 1967.

That none of these things ever happened casts into sharp doubt the Palestinian aspirations for "a state" vs. an eradication of Jews as the desired result.

It's certainly true that the other Arab nations have worked ceaselessly to prevent the formation of a Palestinian state, and have used Palestinian refugees as a shockingly cynical stick with which to beat the Jews, ably abetted by the United Nations.

@Toothyfruity
I'm curious to know - how many Palestinians do you think were displaced and became refugees, and when do you think that happened?

Dear me. The UNRWA supply food, fuel and medicine, along with medical staff, to Gaza. If they didn't, Gaza would have none of those things, because of the Israeli siege.

The UN is now a totally corrupt organisation, taken over by Russia, China, Saudi etc. there ‘peacekeepers’ do not have a good reputation, often involving abuse of females and children

I'm curious to know - how many Palestinians do you think were displaced and became refugees, and when do you think that happened?

I think she may be referring to the Nakba.

It happened in 1948.

What is relevant is that 700,000 Jewish refugees were absorbed and resettled by the nascent state of Israel. There are no longer Iraqi, Syrian, Moroccan or Algerian Jewish refugees in Israel. Just proud Israeli Jews with Iraqi, Syrian Morocan and Algerian heritage.

Relevant to what?

I think it’s hamas, if they weren’t lobbing bombs and digging tunnels there would be no blockade, there may have been settlers though and it may have felt very much like the west bank though.

The problem will be fixed within six months.

You mean the Palestinians would all have starved to death or died under bombing?

The UN is prevented from working towards any truly meaningful change in this situation by the US and its constant use of its veto to protect Israeli interests. This post is just a thinly veiled attempt to suggest that the UN is a fault for objecting to Israeli expansionism.

It’s literally like they’re arguing ethnic cleansing should be treated as the logical outcome and a credible option.

Thankfully, It's changing,
There's something about bombing UN schools, that the vast majority of countries don't support.

I watched the UN general assembly yesterday and the chair while introducing the session sent condolences to the 35 UN workers families that have been killed in the last week. There was an air of being fed up and sadness as those were their colleagues that were killed/murdered.

The Western Bloc countries repeatedly using their veto to block a ceasefire, whilst civilians are dying is a very callous look and their influence is waning as other countries watch them inflame the situation.

Israel is also making the biggest error in demanding that the UN general Secretary Gutteres resign simply for pointing out that the attacks did not happen in a vacuum. He further clarified (tweet below) but Israel has said that it will refuse visas for UN workers.

Basically the rest of the world is watching the events unfold in horror while the USA protects Israel and we hurtle towards WW3 with no de-escalation (Iran is mobilising it forces, Hezbollah have said they'll support Hamas. US bases in the middle east are being bombed. Syria is mobilising near the Golan heights etc).

The power of the BRICS bloc is also rising and they are openly coordinating a plan for peace (2 security Council resolutions brought by Russia & Brazil). Ceasefire then negotiations ASAP on 1967 lines. The Chinese foreign Secretary spoke to his Israeli counterpart and communicated this.

Also more American citizens are questioning why they're sending billions to Israel each year.

So there's hope that the smaller countries at the UN will refuse to be bullied any longer.

@BelleHathor Erdan is truly stretching and it’s damaging Israeli legitimacy further.

I don’t really think that it can change much with the Security Council structure as it is. Not to mention the bribery, lack of funding and military resources. The BRICS involvement seems quite performative to me if I’m honest.

It won't be the Security Council as one member has the right to veto and appearances won't allow the opposites blocs resolution to pass.

I have a lot of faith in BRICS (excluding India right now as they seem to be out of lockstep).

China, Russia and Brazil have been practicing that old thing, that politicians used to do called Diplomacy. They've spoken to and continue to speak regularly to all the Arab states and Israel. China mediated between MBS of Saudi Arabia and Blinken a few days ago when MBS wouldn't speak to Blinken. They're the only "Great powers" advocating for peace and a resolution.

As a bloc they control 6 out of the top 10 Gas and oil producers. So in the worst case scenario in could be a 1970s oil war again which would hurt America.

They've also moved their military assets to counter the moves by the US & others, which will hopefully make our politicians think before escalating.

This may all be moot though as Gaza is currently being bombarded by air and sea.

Really interesting thread, thanks OP.
I thought Jordan were offered the west bank/to govern and rejected it.
I also think its very noteworthy that neither Jordan and Egypt are willing to take refugees. I am assuming its the risk of terrorism?

Are Israel doing us all a favor by getting rid of hamas? Should we really criticising them, they are sacrificing their military and soldiers and taking the risks and the cost.

@BelleHathor China, Russia and Brazil have been practicing that old thing, that politicians used to do called Diplomacy. They've spoken to and continue to speak regularly to all the Arab states and Israel. China mediated between MBS of Saudi Arabia and Blinken a few days ago when MBS wouldn't speak to Blinken. They're the only "Great powers" advocating for peace and a resolution.

Is this a joke? Russia is a terrorist state currently losing a war to their smaller neighbour Ukraine. They hold thousands of kidnapped Ukrainians including children. They blow up grain meant for the middle east, they are threatening nuclear war. They are awol and the country is slowly collapsing. What you have written beggars Belief.
China are threatening Taiwan and carrying out military exercises. They also support the worst regime in the world. North Korea.