Is it just me, or...

[MrsL123]

....does anyone else find those clearblue digital tests a real slap in the face? I usually have the bog standard is-there-a-line-isn't-there-a-line ones, so am used to waiting in anticipation and then convincing myself there is the faintest hint of a line (if I stand on one leg, lean to the left and tilt it at just the right angle to the first rays of the morning sun whilst chanting to the baby gods, of course!). This comforting ritual will continue to sustain my hopes right up until the minute AF comes. But alas, today, that joy has been taken away from me. All I got was:

Not Pregnant

No hint of a 'sorry'. Or 'better luck next time'. Or even a 'never mind'. Hell, even a 'keep trying' would be better. But cold, hard, clinical 'Not Pregnant'. I don't think it could offend me more if it said 'barren whore'. I shall not be partaking in these tests again. Pah!

I was thinking exactly this yesterday! I'm a POAS addict and (AF due yesterday) for the last week have been doing internet cheapies twice a day. I'm terrible for holding them up to the window to try and look for a line that doesn't exist.

But yesterday, given that AF was due, I thought I'd splash out on a fancy digital one. The build up, or the little timer would have been great if the response was 'pregnant', but no a great big "not pregnant" plain and simple!

I felt really crap all day yesterday because of it!!

So this morning I'm back to my internet cheapies - I shall save my one remaining digital test until I know I'm actually going to get "pregnant"!

It just seems so harsh, doesn't it?! It should say 'sorry' or 'congratulations' instead!

I've got PCOS and only have about 3 periods a year with no set pattern, so we've been TTC for six loooong years. We're actually on one of our breaks from trying at the moment, but I started to get some phantom symptoms a few days ago and realised we'd done the deed exactly two weeks before, so I started to get a bit excited! Bit gutted about yet another BFN, but obviously my symptoms mean AF is imminant, so it would seem we managed to time it exactly right without even trying, which is good. Obviously nature had taken over - maybe I should throw away my mountain of ovulation tests. They are just fuelling my POAS habit, me thinks!

Maybe you should have one for peple who want to be pregnant 'not pregnant, better luck next time' and one for those who don't 'not pregnant - phew!'

MrsL123

Six years!.

Have you ever seen a gynae regarding your PCOS?. You should be under the care of such a person as a matter of course and now too. What medical treatment have you had to date regarding PCOS; it often requires careful management and specialist treatment.

OPK's and such like are not worth using at all if PCOS is an issue. Many women with PCOS produce an excess of LH; it is this that the kit reads in PCOS patients. It is also possible to have periods without ovulating.

LOL at 'not pregnant, better luck next time' and 'not pregnant - phew!'

Don't forget 'pregnant - come back and test again tomorrow to make sure you still are!'

Although that would be quite a large results window.

attila I have PCOS and agree with you - the sooner you get specialist attention, the better. I was also recommended to read this book which I LOVE because it was so empowering.
In my case the OPKs showed no surge which then corresponded with the Progesterone test that O didn't happen - though one specialist said that it was probably the timing of the P test that was wrong and that given I had a 'regular' period I wd have ovulated.
I have just started charting to figure out my ovulation cycle...not sure how helpful this will be though.

Before I forget - the name of the book / bible for PCOS - Polycystic Ovary Syndrome,the facts - Mohgah Elsheikh and Caroline Murphy
isbn 978-0-19-921368-9

Hi womanlytales,

If you chart do not do this for any more than 3 months. You need to be aware that PCOS and temp charting are uneasy bedfellows; you can end up with a chart that is nigh on impossible to determine with any degree of accuracy (because it is full of high and low temps). The very fact that PCOS is an issue means that ovulation is unlikely to be happening regularly if at all.

Verity is also a good UK based website to read:-

www.verity.pcos-org.uk

I tend to get quite clear signals when I am ovulating, which is good - then I use the test sticks to make doubly sure (I don't use them all the time IYSWIM). But actually increasing ovulation is the killer. I saw a specialist about 2 years into TTC, who pescribed metformin to no avail, and later chlomid, which I had to come off because it was making me ill. Since then I admit I haven't seen anyone - I've tried the usual things with diet and supplements but it's still not happening for us. We have actually conceived a few times during the six years, but unfortunately it never worked out (we had a spate of what the doctor called 'chemical pregnancies' - i.e positive tests with AF happening shortly after - but others were MCs as late as two months). DH also has a borderline low sperm count (he likes to class it as borderline normal instead lol) so coupled with not knowing when I'll be ovulating makes matters pretty difficult, and then the few times we have been lucky it's all gone wrong. We try not to get too stressed about it, and occasionally we'll get fed up with all the what-ifs and have a break from TTC, which takes the pressure off. But six years does take the piss a bit, I admit!

Farkin' Hell, Mrs L! You are a proper trooper and no mistake! Sorry about your awful experiences.

Can I ask why you have not opted for further treatment etc ...feel free to tell me to myob!

Don't worry ChoChoSan, I don't mind! Truthfully it was my experience with chlomid that put me off any more medical intervention. Although I had no trouble conceiving while I was on it, none of the pregnancies stuck (horrible term, I know, but the most accurate!). It was a very dark time for us, we had lots of happy BFPs and then AF would arrive a few days later (and having to go into work pretending nothing had happened didn't help matters). Sometimes it'd last a couple of weeks and we'd start to get our hopes up, then it'd happen all over again. My last chlomid pregnancy lasted just over 8 weeks - I had a scan, everything was fine, then a few days later I started bleeding and spent a horrendous night in A&E where I miscarried. That was my first 'proper' miscarriage - all the others had been very early so no worse than a period really, but this one was far worse, especially as we'd only seen the healthy heartbeat a few days before. DH was away with work at the time so I was all alone in the hospital and had to go through the 'no heartbeat' scenario on my own - it was honestly the worst night of my life. That put us off TTC for quite a while (we got a puppy instead!) and after that getting more hormones didn't even cross my mind. It almost felt like I was pushing my body to get pregnant when it wasn't ready, so we've decided just to let nature take it's course and try not to push things. I've been trying to manage my diet and have tried some herbal supplements, but I haven't noticed a vast improvement with any of them. Maybe one day I'll get up the nerve to go back to the doctor!

Mrs L123

Yours is one on the saddest stories I have read on this forum in a very long time.

I would actually be urging you to go back to the GP and request a referral to a gynae cons/specialist. With your gynae history being as it is together with a history of miscarriage I would urge you to get seen asap by a specialist. I would not be leaving ttc to chance any more particularly given your circumstances.

I am also wondering if you ever talked openly to anyone regarding what has happened to date. I will put up some details of some helpfuls organisations that you may want to contact.

Those "signs" that you get when you are ovulating can well be leading you up the garden path because you think you are ovulating when you are infact not doing so.
Ovulation does not always occur on the 14th day and it is quite possible to have periods without actually ovulating.

I have PCOS and was told that I ran a higher than average risk of miscarrying by the cons (this is because of my sky high LH levels compared to that of my FSH). There is evidence to suggest that very high LH levels can contribute to an increased risk of miscarriage.

Although clomid can help some PCOSers it should be given to them with a degree of caution. It can help some women with PCOS actually ovulate and around 1 in 3 become pg whilst on it. You should be carefully monitored if placed on clomid and certainly not left to get on with it.

Herbal supplements need to be used with a degree of caution as they can make the underlying hormonal problem worse. If you really want to use herbal stuff do not self medicate but seek instead the advice of a properly qualified medical herbalist.

HTH

Mrs L123

Yours is one on the saddest stories I have read on this forum in a very long time.

I would actually be urging you to go back to the GP and request a referral to a gynae cons/specialist. With your gynae history being as it is together with a history of miscarriage I would urge you to get seen asap by a specialist. I would not be leaving ttc to chance any more particularly given your circumstances.

I am also wondering if you ever talked openly to anyone regarding what has happened to date. I will put up some details of some helpfuls organisations that you may want to contact.

Those "signs" that you get when you are ovulating can well be leading you up the garden path because you think you are ovulating when you are infact not doing so.
Ovulation does not always occur on the 14th day and it is quite possible to have periods without actually ovulating.

I have PCOS and was told that I ran a higher than average risk of miscarrying by the cons (this is because of my sky high LH levels compared to that of my FSH). There is evidence to suggest that very high LH levels can contribute to an increased risk of miscarriage.

Although clomid can help some PCOSers it should be given to them with a degree of caution. It can help some women with PCOS actually ovulate and around 1 in 3 become pg whilst on it. You should be carefully monitored if placed on clomid and certainly not left to get on with it.

Herbal supplements need to be used with a degree of caution as they can make the underlying hormonal problem worse. If you really want to use herbal stuff do not self medicate but seek instead the advice of a properly qualified medical herbalist.

HTH

www.infertilitynetworkuk.com

www.miscarriageassociation.org.uk

Yes, best wishes to you Mrs L123.

Thanks for the links Attila - don't mean to sound sad, I'm not really! It does get me down sometimes but we've moved into the 'if it happens' frame of mind rather than 'when', I think that helps because it takes the pressure off a bit. We try to think of the positives - unbroken sleep and spare cash! But even though we're in one of our non-trying phases at the moment, the minute the old boobs start to ache the POAS compulsion comes back with a vengeance, so I guess it never goes away!

Your comment about being left to get on with it with the chlomid absolutely rings true, I got the feeling the doctor was just going through the motions rather than actually being interested in how things were going - it was as though we should be happy we were conceiving at all, rather than being sad about the MCs - sorry, "chemical pregnancies" . I do remember being told my LH levels were too high at one point, but was offered no help with it (not sure if there's anything they can do anyway?). My mum and gran both suffered from multiple miscarriages, and we now think they both had PCOS too (but obviously it wasn't being diagnosed then). Thankfully they managed to conceive in the end (obviously!) and had two children each, so I think there is hope!

MrsL123,

You may be an ideal candidate for ovarian diathermy surgery. This is a procedure whereby the surgeon punctures the cystic follicles with an electrical laser or needle. It can restart ovulation and also lower LH levels (I had this surgery and I am a parent as a direct result).

Although the causes of PCOS are not fully understood (and no one therapy or treatment will completely eradicate this as the cystic follicles associated with PCOS do return) there seems to be evidence of a genetic link so it is more than likely that your Mum and Nan also had PCOS as well.

If you do decide as a couple to return to the GP (and I sincerely hope you do because I would not leave this to chance any longer) I would insist on a referral to a gynae specialist; someone who has a specialist interest in PCOS and its management. They are out there. It is all too easy to be fobbed off and ignored when it comes to the whole subfertility minefield.

You will need to be persistant in order to get answers from these people. Knowledge too is power!!.

I hope the links provided will be helpful to you if you check them out.

Good luck to you both.

Attilla Thank you for the tip on charting and PCOS. I feel relieved to hear this because I think I was elevating the charting procedure onto this pedestal in my head instead of with a pinch of salt [as is the case with most of this stuff].
I had ovarian diathermy surgery in Jan this year. My cycles since have been regular at 28 days. My first cycle however showed via the progesterone test that I had not ovulated so my specialist put me on clomid right away. My specialist told me that my surgery had failed. Hearing this was crushing and so I went ahead with cycle 2 and the first round of clomid and I ovulated but there was no bfp. At this point my insurance company changed their mind and I had to go back to my GP to be referred to a specialist in NHS. My GP also put me on the second round of clomid on cycle 3 though he said he didn't know much about it and that we should wait the 3 months to see a specialist to go any further.
I am seriously contemplating not taking clomid because I have seen a marked change in myself - with sensitive boobs to headaches and most worrying strong bouts of depression or listlessness.
The good news is that post the surgery my periods are coming regularly and I've also lost 5 kilos. My aim is to get to a BMI of 24 [am currently 28] and then hopefully by then I'll be able to see a specialist for some guidance.

Hi Mrs L,

Wow, you and your chap are very philosohical about everything...and I really feel for you, especially with your no HB scan on your own .

I am surprised that your GP has prescribed Clomid for you without referring you to specialists (that sounds like bad practice to me)...loads of people with PCOS get pg with (or without)a bit of support, and your m/c s should be investigated properly...there should not be an assumption that it's got anything at all to do with PCOS

If you feel ready, I would recommend going to GP for a referral...and if you are not ready...don't worry! you won't get an appointment for months anyway!

By the way Mrs L, on a thread I often frequent, there is much discussion of the mocking tone of the Clearblue digital, and many alternatives proferred similar to yours above, suc as 'you must be fucking joking, you dried up old hag' or 'Pregnant? You? Dont make me larf!'

ChoCho that was the specialist! I waited months for each appointment and came away feeling decidedly hmmm every time. He was 60-something with a big bushy beard, so I never felt particularly comfortable with him poking around down there anyway, and I really feel some things were lost in translation, especially when DH was talking to him (his scottish accent vs doc's indian accent, not a good mix!). DH used to get quite frustrated with him TBH - his answer was chlomid, chlomid and more chlomid. DH only had one sperm count done, which was right at the top end of 'low' - he asked for another to be done (male pride, and all that!) but he was told no because it didn't make any difference if it turned out to be any higher! And he put me on the waiting list for an exploritory laparoscopy but the appointment came through for when I was on holiday, so I had to go back on the list and never got invited back again. Unfortunately he's the only fertility doctor for our area - we're in scotland so there's not much choice locally unless we want to go private. Maybe if I wait long enough he'll retire!

MrsL123,

Its no point at all dealing with non communicative medical people; it is vital that the three of you can work as a team along with you as a couple receiving continuity of care. Clearly in your case none of that happened.

I don't know where you saw this particular doc but I would certainly not use his services in future. I would avoid this man like the plague. (Dr Foster's website is worth looking at).

Was this medical person local to you?. It sounds like he was. It is certainly fair to say that some NHS fertility units are better than others and it may be that you will need to be treated at a major NHS centre in a larger city. I would seriously consider such other options.

A caveat re private treatment - some clinics are very good but others offer poor as well as expensive treatment. You would need to do your researches very carefully and ask lots of questions before handing over your hard earnt cash.

BTW one semen analysis is not fully indicative of there being male factor problems. Such tests always should be repeated as a matter of course.