Men Rant! Cant get my head around this!

[jurisfictionoperative]

Well, here is the situation-
we have a ds and a dd, aged 14 and 11. I am desperate for another baby. My partner isnt keen. Basically we had a 'near miss'(in his opinion) last month, (chemical pregnancy I think, I was gutted!) and I told him about it. He said he would have been annoyed, but would eventually have got over it. So, I said, whats the difference in the long run, if we try? Anyway, after a long convoluted discussion, it boils down to the following- He hates using condoms, and we have been using the withdrawal method. He accepts that this is risky, but he accepts the fact I could get pregnant. But he wont actively try for a baby. So, I have to go each month, being tortured by the fact there is a slim chance I could get pregnant, and I really want it, just so he can get his rocks off in comfort. What do you do with a man like this? I have tried every argument I can think of, and I dont know what do do next. Am I being unreasonable? HELP

It seems that you want a baby more than he doesn't IYSWIM, so I would make sure you're both very clear, it's either yes or no, it's a big decision not one just to leave up to fate and deal with only if it happens. Try not to get into any mind games (i.e not telling him when you're ov) or confusing yourself, it'll just make it more difficult and a baby shouldn't be made in that way.

If you think he's convinceable (?) then it'll just need time, tread carefully, and explain that life is too short and that being happy is the most important thing. Would it make him so unhappy? maybe it's a psychological thing, the word 'trying' might sound like too much of a mission/adventure/life change.

If he said he would have 'got over it' can he get over your decision to TTC? the only difference is that with an unplanned pregnancy the decision has already been made without choice.

You're not being unreasonable though, it has to be decided by both partners equally, it's just a matter of balance. Talk about the pros and cons, positive change, and how important it is to you.

Either that or don't put out til he agrees! (jokin)

If I stopped putting out, he would soon cave. Trouble is I have too much conscience!

If you put him in sole charge of contraception, would he do a good job?

Done that already! Trouble is he does. Obviously it didn't work last month, but it's a bit unfair making me suffer every month hoping for that offchance, when he would accept that, but not actively try! I've read the threads on here for people on their 2ww, and I completely relate, except I haven't got their chances, cos my partner is a selfish git!

Don't get me wrong, I love him to bits, just some times he drives me bonkers! :-)

Pretend to be on the pill.

Both my daughters are the result of leaving it to fate and dealing with it when it happens. Works for us, don't see why you necessarily have to agonise over it.

Ok well don't have sex with him then until he agrees to use a form of contraception that suits you both.

It seems there are two questions here.

Q1. Is it reasonable for a woman to try and trick/force/bully a man into having another child against their will? My answer is no and never.

Q2. Is is reasonable for a woman to ask a man to have a vasectomy or use condoms and take responsbility for contraception? My answer is yes and always.

Others may disagree of course.

Jurisfictionoperative my heart really goes out to you.

It does sound as if this is not something positive or helpful to your relationship to DP. I wonder if it is worth talking about it generally and expressing how much it affects you. I wonder what his objections to another child are.

Personally, it looks to me like DP is accepting that there is a ?risk? that you could get pregnant. If he is anything like my dh he would not know when my fertile time was! This is academic for me as I am very sub-fertile and we are currently having fertility treatment but I mean generally. So in terms of ?trying? - any s*x you have around your fertile time could be a time when you get pregnant. Does DP want to avoid this time? Is it possible to agree that you will not actively try to stop it happening and if it happens that you will deal with it?

If you are both fertile and having regular s*x I am guessing eventually it would happen anyway.

I do not think it is fair that your DP is stopping you having another baby, if he had a very good reason for this, it may be more justifiable but from what you have said it does not sound like there is a deep reason, or if there is he has not articulated well enough to you. It seems that he just doesn?t really want another.

Generally, I would say that it is best for the decision to be a completely joint one but my experience of friend?s relationships is that generally women want the babies and men often feel scared of it all but once the baby arrives they are besotted and happy with the baby. They just can?t quite visualise the baby until it is here.

Just my thoughts. I am sure others will disagree with me.

I had to wait for about two years for dh and I to agree to use donor eggs and it was just a long patient wait while we kept talking. I could not go behind his back and we had to eventually agree, which we did, but for me it was important to keep the lines of communication open. Once we had agreed we then had to go on the waiting list so the good thing for you is that if DP does agree to not stop it happening then you can start not stopping straight away!

All best wishes for you.

Oh, someone else just mentioned it on another thread, don't forget to take folic acid if you think there is a chance you may get pregnant.

ABetaDad I think the main question is "is it reasonable for a man to insist on practising a method of "contraception" that he knows is taking an emotional toll on his partner?"

I really feel that you shouldn't have to, but as the lesser of two evils, could you go on the pill, OP?

Thanks amanda,
yes I could go on the pill, but I stopped originally as it wasn't doing good things to my body.
Abetadad, I am not trying to force/trick/or bully anyone into anything. I want another baby, and he apparently doesn't, so, having had adverse effects from taking the pill, I placed contraception in his hands. I dont think that is unfair, no contraception involves a man filling his body with hormone scrambling chemicals! My whole point is that he chose this method of contraception for his own comfort, and doesnt seen to be sparing any thought for my feelings. seems to me this is a no and never situation! If I wanted to force/trick or bully him, I could very easily tell him I am back on the pill, and for it to never pass my lips, but I have more consideration for him than that.

What does your doctor suggest?

jurisfictionoperative I am really sorry your DP is making life hard for you. I feel sad that when in a couple two people want different things it is often the one who does not want anything to change who gets there own way. If that makes sense.

I wonder if DP knows how much this is affecting you. I think you are being very restrained in not tricking him into anything.

Is there a reason he does not want another (e.g. finances) - if I may ask?

All the best. Sorry if this is not much help, I do kind of feel the communication lines need to be open between you and DP and maybe things will change. Maybe from reading here what others think and from general thoughts on the matter you may be able to open the lines of communication even more. There are three examples I know of of people who wanted another child (all women) and their DH did not, two of the three have decided to go for another (of this two one has already got another), the third is as yet unconvinced and for them it may well be finances that are the issue, which is why I asked the question.

Not sure opening the lines of communication is such a good idea, we didnt speak for 2 days last time, (hence this post)! My other half is a contrary git. If I said the sky is blue, he would say it was pink!! He doesn't want anymore kids cos 'normal' people stop at two! doesnt say much for my mother in law, she had three!!! I have decided on the following and have told him the same,
.. if he doesnt want to use any other more reliable form of contraception, thats fine by me, the choice is in his hands. I am sure pg will happen eventually, I fell really easily with the first two. He can go happily on, hoping it doesnt happen, whilst I on the other hand will be hoping it does. When It does happen, he had bloody well better not throw a hissy fit, as it will be entirely his own fault!! In the long run, I am not worried about his reaction, he loves his kids and is a great dad, he just has issues with change, and making decisions, but usually sorts his head out just fine!
In the mean time, I have stowed away in the luggage compartment of the january bus thread.. after all, you know what they call people who use the withdrawal method.. parents!

jurisfictionoperative well done for your decision, all the best, whatever happens do please tell us.

Maybe he should consider a vasectomy if he really doesn't want any more children and then you can both move on.

With my psychologist hat on he's probably thinking that your existing children will be flying the nest in 10 years ish and he'll get his old pre-kids life back (partially) and doesn't want to start again with another baby. TBH I can relate to that, I think there're advantages to having your children when your young and having them when your older but I wouldn't want to start again when my existing children were nearly grown. That's not a critisism of you BTW, it's just something I can't get my head round. IMHO his desire NOT to have another child is equally as valid as your desire to conceive so you seem to be at stalemate. Why do you want another child just out of interest?

There is only one place he would be moving on to if he did that, the nearest b and b! I see that as a worse betrayal than me getting pregnant by accident!
Not sure there is any specific reason, I have always wanted more than two, he knew that when he met me! And the kids are egging me on! They would love another! It has been in the forefront of my mind since dd was born 11 years ago! I suppose as I am about to hit 35 the old clock is ticking louder, as well!

Don't take this the wrong way and I know what that bloody clock is like, god knows, but you said in an earlier post that

...if he doesnt want to use any other more reliable form of contraception, thats fine by me, the choice is in his hands...

but then you just said that if he had a vasectomy, i.e. a reliable form of contraception (mostly), you'd chuck him out so what you actually seem to be saying is that you want him to use an unreliable method of contraception so you can get pregnant which, as far as I can see, isn't a choice at all.

Basically, you know your husband and your marriage and for all I know he'd not even consider a vasectomy even if you were all for it so if you really think he's indecisive and contrary but that he'd be happy once you were pregnant with another child then go for your life.

However, IMHO trying to convince someone that what you want is what they want too rarely works and may end up in an eggy face type situation, believe me, I've been down that road, albeit in a differnet situation, and ended up not so much with egg on my face as a whole omlette wrapped round my head.

Sorry to p**s on your parade but I think you need to really need to talk to your DP about why he doesn't want another child and make a yes or no decision which I know is hard with that bloody clock ticking-tocking morning, noon and night

Oddy x