No babies - ever.....

[Gizmo]

Unusually for me, I don't know what to say....one of my best friends, TTC for over a year, has just found out that she will never be able to have a child with her husband.

What can you say? How do you help people get through this?

Oh crumbs.

Have you already gone through the whys and wherefores?

I don't think there's a right thing to say in these circumstances.

From my own experiences of DD's illness, there are times when people say 'Is everything ok?' and I say 'I don't want to talk about it right now' and other times when I want to talk. From that I can only suggest that you be there for when she does want to talk and accept it if she doesn't.

Say as little as possible - but listen a lot...
Don't assume you know how she is feeling - ask instead....
Don't make helpful suggestions - ask what her thoughts and ideas are now...
What else? Don't be afraid of talking to her/asking how she is, don't be afraid of her feelings, don't talk about your children unless she asks...and make sure she knows you'll always be her friend even if your life's paths have diverged.
Good luck, I am sure you will be a caring and supportive friend.

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I'll start to make a list...

Yup, Sue, we've been through the whole process of 'why is this happening?' to the 'what can be done about it?'. And for so long she's had hopes that something medical could be done. But it's no go.

Lots of grieving to be done . I hadn't thought about the possibilities of our paths diverging, elliott, but you're right and that's equally distressing. I can only hope that we can hang onto the mutual territory.

Oh Gizmo, this is awful isn't it? We have the same with almost all my dh's close friends, 4 couples can't conceive. 3 of them told us (by email because we are overseas) when I was pregnant. We just wanted to cry for them, and be there for them, but as new parents, we were probably the worst people to be around. It was so hard to know what to say, and now in that crowd we are the only ones with kids, so I feel as if we will struggle to stay close. I have no suggestions, just know how hard it is to be in this situation, and I know you can be a good friend to her. good luck.

Gizmo, my sister was told that she couldn't have kids either. Do you know if it's a problem on her side or his? Has she been for IVF? My sister eventually accepted the fact that she could never have kids, hard though it was for her at the time, and they decided to adopt. She adopted two children and then she had a miscarriage just before I became pregnant with my first. She was devestated but also intrigued that she could have conceived. They tried again and she fell pregnant. The baby was found to have Downs Syndrome when she was 7 months pregnant, but he is a lovely little boy! Now she is pregnant again!

I don't think it is up to the doctors to say 'never'. There are always exceptions. She has a lot of thinking to do, so just be there for her, listen to her, offer to take her out to get her mind away from it. Leave it up to her whether or not she wants to talk about it, but don't shy away from the issue either. Maybe there's a support group she could contact? I don't know of any but maybe someone on here does?

Gosh, there's a lot of it about, isn't there? Thanks for all your suggestions and encouraging remarks guys (although I'm trying to think of a way I can turn them into something positive for BF, who is after all suffering a good deal more than me in this situation).

Without going into details, the problem is on his side, not hers, and the chances of them conceiving through any technique are non existant. Its not even worth them starting IVF. They have (rather like your friends, Steppemum) recently moved to the other side of the planet to a part of the world with some of the best medical science available, but they have still been told no go.

I want to be closer, I want to be able to give her a cuddle and let her cry without having to talk (the phone is not very good for that). But logistics just don't allow.

In time perhaps they'll make the decision to foster. I expect there'll be a long way to go before they feel able to make that call.

Rhubarb, that's a good point about support services nearby - I will suggest it. Ironically, it might help a bit to get her 'bedded into' her new community - expat gloom is always so isolating

Gizmo, that's terribly sad, it must be awful for your friend and her husband, and for you too. They are grieving and there really isn't anything you can say to make it better, which must make you feel so helpless. Maybe in time, they will consider adoption or donor insemination, or just come to terms with their childlessness, but I'm sure your friend doesn't need you to make suggestions, or offer false hope, just listen and care.

I don't know about support groups either, but maybe if you contacted a couple of British infertility organisations they could point you in the right direction. You could try ISSUE www.issue.co.uk and CHILD www.child.org.uk

Jane101, you are right about not offering false hope. When I was trying to come to terms with the possibility of not having children, the last thing I wanted to hear was stories about other people's miracle babies, or people tritely saying 'oh, it will happen one day'...acceptance of the situation is necessary before you can move on, and that goes for friends and family too. Even after ds was born so many people would insist on telling me 'oh, I'm sure you'll just go and get pregnant naturally now...' It really is NOT a helpful thing to hear...whilst in my situation, no one is going to tell me its impossible for me ever to conceive naturally, to remain sane I have to live as though that is the case.

Gizmo I am sure your friend is well aware of the options that may or may not be open to her, and in time she and her husband may find a way to have children in their lives. Or they may find a way to enjoy the freedom childlessness gives them. Actually one book I would recommend is called 'Sweet Grapes' (can't remember the other details but it certainly used to be available on amazon) - basically takes the view that if life gives you lemons, make lemonade!! A sound philosophy when your friends are ready to make that step - it really helped me. I truly never believed IVF would work for me and DH and I had gone a quite a fair way towards accepting childlessness - to the extent that I could see that life really would be all right however things panned out. A big loss sure, and a lot of pain, but there was a way through it...
Sorry for rambling...

Gizmo, I may be being stupid but I don't understand why your friend could not have a baby with donated sperm and raise the baby with her husband, if the problem is with his fertility only. Obviously, he is the man she loves and she wanted to have his baby, and will naturally be disappointed and upset now, but lots of women have babies by AID, and enjoy the pleasure of being pregnant and having a child which is at least half their own. I think they try and match the donor to be someone who looks like the husband.

Do you think that it would be appropriate to ask a dear couple we know (who are very good friends) to be godparents of our third child? Sadly they can never have children of their own and I would hate to think that I would cause them hurt or offence by asking them. They are such wonderful people and I hope that they would be pleased to be asked but as I have been so fortunate to have children it's difficult to know how they would feel.

If they are good friends you may have a good idea already of the answer to this (like, do they seem interested in your other children?). Personally I would say yes, I would have been delighted to have been asked if in similar circumstances (though luckily we were succesful through IVF). We were always a little sad (before we had children) that our friends with children sometimes didn't think to include us in child-related activities (e.g. hardly ever had our offers of babysitting taken up).
Again, if they are good friends they will be able to tell you if they don't want to do it - but I imagine they will be touched and delighted (assuming they've had some time to be accustomed to their situation).

Thank you for your response Eliott. My dh doesn't think it would be tactful to ask them but I really want to and I agree with what you say about being excluded from kiddie events etc.., for example my friend only found out today through the grapevine that I was pregnant and when she congratulated me I said that I didn't know how to tell her, to which she replied that all her other pregnant friends said the same. I will ask them when the time comes but say that I will completely understand if they do not want to be godparents.

Presto, one of the childless couples I refered to earlier was the first to congratulate us on being pregnant, and one of the first to send us a birth congrats card. They have known for a long time that they can't have children, and I think they wanted to show us that they could be really excited for us, despite their own situation, so my guess is your friends would be delighted to be asked,especially if they have come to terms with their chidlessness.

presto - I totally agree with the others - it sounds like a really great idea. A friend of mine who lost her baby a month ago has admitted to me that talking about babies etc. for the first couple of weeks was really hard but now she finds all baby related activities really healing and is genuinely interested in my pregnancy and happy for me. We are not really close friends and her honesty and postive attitude was lovely. I had assumed that she would be trying to avoid me as it would remind her of what she hasn?t got but not the case at all. I think a lot of people in these types of personal circumstances prefer people to include them in their family lives rather than try to "help" them by being overly careful not to upset them.

If you don't offer them the chance, they don't get the chance to say no. And if instead you offer the 'job' to someone else, they might be offended and wonder why you didn't ask.

I agree with everyone else. It is a lovely idea and I think your friends would really appreciate it .... I was made a godmother way before I became a mother (and had no idea whether I could, or even wanted to) and I loved it. I spoiled that baby rotten and now she and I have a really special bond (she is 6 yrs old now).
Go for it Presto ....

presto I should add as maryz has pointed out, your request may trigger off some painful feelings and upset, but nevertheless that is not a reason not to ask. I sometimes foudn it hard being with friends' children, but it is better to be given opportunities than have people decide for you what you can and can't bear.

Thanks everyone for your thoughful comments - I will definitely ask them to be godparents