PCOS - is it possible to have a thermal shift but not release an egg?

[hopingforanother]

Hi!

I have PCOS and have been using Fertility Friend for a few months to try and get some idea of what is going on. My cycle is now down to around 7 weeks and FF is telling me I ovulate every cycle around CD35 with a 14 day LP.

Is it possible to have a clear thermal shift but not actually release an egg? And if it is, where does the extra progesterone which causes the temp rise come from??

Thanks!!

According to Toni Weschler's book, 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility', it is possible though very very rare to have a thermal shift without releasing an egg - ie. the egg matures but kind of gets stuck on the ovary (?). However, if you are having a regular (if somewhat long) cycle and your temps are telling you that you are ov'ing, then this probably means you are ov'ing so don't worry about it!

I also have PCOS but usually ovulate roughly once a month, so it is possible...

Thanks! That's reassuring! It's so difficult with PCOS, not ever really knowing what's going on. We've been trying for no2 for a year now. Just need to get my cycle a little shorter I think. Better get back down the gym...!
:-)

hopingforanother,

Unfortunately temp charting is of no real benefit if PCOS is an issue. Also charting is problematic in these circs as you can end up with a chart akin to the Rocky Mountains, interpreting it with any degree of accuracy is thus very difficult.

It is certainly possible to have a temp rise in the second half of your cycle when an egg has not been shed (a common problem with PCOS). This is why temp charting is inadviseable in these particular circs, it is only of more benefit if the menstrual cycle is completely regular. They can certainly mislead and are not infallible.

What happens is that the body tries desparately to gear itself up into releasing an egg but because the two hormones which kickstart ovulation are out of sync (there is normally a LH/FSH imbalance with PCOS) then not enough progesterone is produced and thus no egg is released. The two hormones LH (luteinising hormone) and FSH (follicle stimulation hormone) are crucial to ovulation happening, if they are out of sync then nothing will happen (as the chart has shown). Normally the levels of LH and FSH remain about the same, with PCOS there is often too much LH being produced and not enough FSH.

It is certainly possible to have periods without ovulating.

If you have been ttc number 2 for a year then I would look into having blood tests done to see what your hormone levels are like now with particular emphasis placed on your LH and FSH levels. If these confirm non ovulation then treatment can start preferably under the supervision of a gynae. You've had a previous PCOS dx; I would act sooner rather than later and see the GP in the first instance.

Verity's website may also be helpful:-

www.verity-pcos.org.uk

Thanks for your reply Attila.

Actually, I've found temperature charting particularly helpful as I have a sustained temperature shift of 14 days in each cycle (though my cycles vary in length by around a week or so), so I at least know with accuracy when to expect my period. Which is a great improvement.

What I really am trying to find out is whether a sustained and clear thermal shift can take place when there has been no ovulation and hence there is no progesterone from the corpeus luteum to sustain the shift? Anyone know the answer to that?...

hopingforanother,

The answer to your question is yes, you can certainly have a sustained temp shift when ovulation has not actually taken place. If LH and FSH (and these two hormones are vitally important) are out of whack (which is often the case with PCOS) then not enough progesterone is produced. The surest way you are going to know is through blood tests and or ultrasound scans to see what the ovaries look like now.

At least you know when to expect your period but this is not an indication that ovulation is infact happening regularly.

How do you feel about having blood tests done now?. I feel you should at least consider it now due to the time taken so far.

Hi hopingforanother,

An important consideration with PCOS as well is trying to remain within the correct weight limits for your height. Excess pounds can exacerbate the problems associated with this condition which is a very individualistic disorder.

The gym may help a bit but its only a small part of a bigger problem. You may also want to try a low GI/GL (glycaemic index/glycaemic load) eating plan as this is often helpful for PCOSers in overall health.

Attila thanks for your replies. Yes - I have had PCOS for many years, have a good understanding of the condition and manage it well in a range of ways - but thank you for the advice you've offered.

The question I'm asking is indeed as you say about progesterone - progeterone is the hormone which causes the temperature shift and is released by the corpeus luteum after the egg is released. What I want to know, is where temperature rasing progesterone (causing the sustained shift) would come from if ovulation hadn't occured? I think this is maybe a question for a professional so I'll follow it up that way - but thanks all for your reposnses!