Completely unscientific poll for over 30s TTC

[longwee]

Over on the mid 30s TTC thread we have been gnashing our collective teeth at the swathe of recent reports saying how couples have delayed trying for a baby till their 30s and then come up against problems due to age. A lot of such reports identify 'career women' as the reason for delaying TTC. While this is no doubt true in a lot of cases, we have noticed that none of us have ever seen an article that says men might want to stop acting like overgrown teenagers, man up, and darn well make sure they commit to a woman before the age of 30 - but our collective experience indicates that it is sometimes our menfolk who are less keen to get down to business of committing to a woman or to starting a family.

Now I?m not starting a man-bashing thread, but I am interested in people?s reasons for delaying TTC past 30. Was it wanting to see the world, focusing on your career, finding the right man, getting him to commit, or not being sure yourselves?

I?ll start... in my case I have never been in a rush to have babies as I?ve taken a long time to be convinced about the idea, so it was pretty much my own choice. Plus there was the issue of finding the right fella, who didn?t turn up till I was 32 (although admittedly I wasn?t looking very hard...)

Anyone else?

Great thread.

I lived with a f*ckwit in my 20s and dumped him and moved out when I was 27. I met DH when soon after, we got engaged when I was 29 and married when I was 31.

We're TTC #1 now (I am 32) and if that happens soon I'm unlikely to be conceiving #2 till I'm 34 or 35 or as the newspapers have it, the date my ovaries commit hari kiri.

I definitely dont have a shit hot career, it just took a while to meet the right guy.

And when I met DH he was in no hurry to get engaged and I did actually issue an ultimatum. (to be fair to him he is younger than me and now that we're married he keeps saying how ace it is and how I was right for wanting to get married & he was wrong).

Some good points lottie - of course, we have to take responsibility for staying with idiots and bastards, etc., but it's only with hindsight that you can properly see how stupid you were to put up with their shit. I wonder if these men really are so clueless that they don't realise what they're doing to women with their lying and hollow promises as their partners' fertile years tick by.

I wasn't suggesting that women and men work but women do ALL the housework, but that women are still doing the majority of 'work once home', as every statistic and study on the issue show. I am unique amongst my friends in that my DP does 50% of our housework (in fact, he proobably does 60%). but then again, like you said, I snagged a good 'un

You are right about the presentation of 30+ fertility problems being skewed, because of course, who do the experts who come out with the facts and figures get those facts and figures from - women in the medical system reporting fertility problems or who have had DC despite fertility problems. I was taking to my Mum about this today - they're not focussing their studies on older women getting pg easily or without too many problems, are they? They're looking for the problems. Or am I kidding myself, hmmm?

Yeah lottie lots of sense in your post. I would agree that I never set out to look for a fella into having kids in my twenties and even my thirties. I didn't want them myself. I would have viewed guys who did want kids as "boring" "conventional" and not for me. I was a different person then.

I know plenty of girls I went to school who wanted families young and made sure the guys they hooked up with wanted the same.

Can't blame my OH for being slow to come around to the idea seeing as I was adamant when I met him I never wanted any and made sure he knew it. Still we did nearly split up when I did a u-turn so it does go to show it seems to often be the woman who has to persuade the man.

Also my OH does most of the things around the house (and he's mid thirties too), and I did always make sure to never go out with male chauvinists, just wastrels like i was meself . Of course I may have inadvertently jumped in the sack with some housework dodgers, but I never saw them again so who cares

londonlottie you probably need to read more in the "Relationships" section on mumsnet if you genuinely don't know anyone IRL. Anyway, who'd admit to that? It's shameful surely?

I also heard on Womens Hour that a lot more women than men buy the Daily Mail. Does make you wonder seeing as from what I can see it's really misogynist.

I swear most of my friends have fairly equal relatonship with their OHs. Even my sister's husband who is nearly 50 does lots around the house and did lots of childcare. She did more tis true.

Maybe us Irish wenches don't take no shiz

Not saying there aren't fellas like that out there though. Indeed you can see it on threads here. Just not sure it's the norm.

Dunno where my DP gets his egalitarian ways from, because FIL makes MIL choose his clothes for him, do ALL the housework, do the driving, all the cooking and he even insists she puts food on his plate for him and puts the knife and fork in his hand - I have to restrain myself from saying 'Does oo need your bib or are oo a big boy now? Yes, you are, yes, you ARE!'.

My Dad, on the other hand, has always pulled his weight and when he retired whilst my Mum was at work, became a full-on house husband. He thinks nothing is more manly than giving your wife the freedom to live her own life well and for you both to be absolute equals in term of what you bring to a relationship.

lottie I was just generalising - 'tis but a comment on MN, not a PhD proposal. I meant to say 'most or all'. Although, as I said, it is my experience that nearly all my friends have to do everything in the home yet work as long and hard, if not harder, as their partners/spouses. MIL is amazed when she hears what DP does for himself - to her constant query 'but how do you get him to do it?', I just shrug and say 'I don't give him any another option'.

I agree with the "most of" angle. If we're going to get into random percentages (and by that I mean "I'm going to), my father did 0% of anything when I was growing up but has muchly improved to helping about 20%. I think the thinking in their day was that he earned the money doing his job and she stayed at home doing her job. Equally important jobs, but he got paid. And a break from the house.

On the other hand, my OH does probably about 70% of the general household stuff as opposed to my rather lazy 30%. It isn't through cracking a whip or anything else... its just that he loves to cook and he is better at it, and he can be a bit anal whereas I am a bit sloppy. I can cope if there is some fluff on the carpet (so long as we don't have visitors to see it) whereas he can't. He just gives in easier!

OH's father is the type to announce he would like a cup of tea so MIL runs off to fetch it. He only mentions the biscuits when she's already delivered the tea. And apparently he has never made a meal in his life. Apparently if she goes to visit friends she cooks his meals in advance and pops them, plated up, in the freezer. Thank god we are not of that generation!

As a result, I'm not entirely sure its down to what mothers have taught their sons. I believe its down to the individual. And I am extremely grateful for my good'un.

My twopennies worth -

my sis is coming up for 30. She has been with her OH for 8 years and is planning ttc in about 5 years because she wants a career, evenings out etc first. I have warned her to start earlier but she says there is no point in ttc if she doesn't want to. As far as I can tell, her OH does nothing round the house and is v traditional (young fogey with spliffs and decks).

I got pregnant with my dd by accident when I was 29 but just started ttc again and was surprised and disappointed that it doesn't seem to have happened straight away. I assumed it would be easy and have just started worrying what will happen if it is not...

Great thread.

I've been with my now DH since I was 25. He first asked me to get married when I was around 27 but I couldn't even imagine doing something so grown up at that stage.

I was not ready to be settled down or have children in my 20s at all. "Career" doesn't cover it - I was living my life and figuring out a lot about myself.

When I was 29 I moved to NYC without then boyfriend to do a graduate degree. We were long distance for two years while I studied. When I finished I had some decisions to make about what next and I realised that I wanted to go home, and that was wherever OH was. It just seemed like the right time for us to become a family, so we decided to get married and I moved to where he lived.

We got married when I was 31, had DD when I was 32 and I'm expecting DC2 when I'll be 34 (which is my age now).

I actually expected to wait a little longer after we got married before having children but somehow it just didn't quite happen that way. I think in part I began to be a bit terrified that if I waited I would find it was too late. For some reason I always assumed I'd have difficulties conceiving, although the opposite appears to be the case (which I feel very lucky about).

donttrythis I wonder that about Irish women too. Some of the things I read on MN about men make my hair stand on end. I don't know anyone whose husband is lazy and useless and childish. My DH is English though and he certainly doesn't expect me to skivvy around after him, so perhaps it's just the people I know.

Didn't meet the right man (that is, a man prepared to marry me) until I was 31, didn't get married until 34. Started trying to conceive at 35. PCOS diagnosed aged 35.5. Ovarian drilling. Pregnant at 36. Lost the baby at 17 weeks, found out I also had a weak cervix. Pregnant again at 37. Finally gave birth last April, will be 38 in a few days' time.
Ouf.
Would it have helped if I had ttc earlier? Probably not, as the problems I have were not related to age, and I would not have had the money to get them sorted (all privately) or the emotional resilience to deal with them. I am happy, my only regret is that it's probably too late and too difficult to have a second child. But who knows... I fully agree: men not careers are the reason women delay motherhood. We have to take our other halves into account too - DH was no ready to consider ttc until we'd been married a year.

I didn't meet my dh until I was 33, got engaged when I was 34, got married at 35, took about 18 months to conceive ds so he was born just after my 37th birthday, and I'm now 39 and pg with dc2, due in December. Simples...

Actually looking back at my life I don't think I'd have started much earlier, certainly not in my 20s, I would possibly have preferred to have my first dc at 35 and second at 37 but you can't always plan these things to the letter. I think the first time I was ttc it took so long because I didn't have a clue about my cycle, because in my late 30s I've managed to conceive three times in a row on either the first or second attempt at trying (sadly lost two pregnancies, but third one hanging in there)

Londonlottie what the hell are you on about? I don't think that I have the only good man in the world, far from it. I think he pulls his weight more than my friend's partners and his own father, that's all. I'm sure those men - and other men - do stuff other than housework that my DP doesn't and they'd pity me for that/think he's rubbish. I take full responsibility for staying with a horrible man in my last relationship. Forgive me for possibly being smug that my partner now is a treasure. I find it hard to understand your attitude as if someone else says something about their partner being great because he does X and some men don't, I don't take it as an affront to my DP and think she's implying other men are inferior by comparison.

And if you actually read my initial comment, I say quite harsh things about women putting up with shit they shouldn't from men - I'm certainly not all 'boohoo, men are all terrible, except for mine, we women are so hard done to'.

You're jumping on some things I have said and claiming that I have said 'ALL' men do or don't do stuff and 'ALL' men are crap, etc. I haven't said that. My later comments on here have mainly been responding to things others have said about rubbish men, so it'd be quite hard to avoid the topic of rubbish men when discussing rubbish men, wouldn't it? Yes.

On the other hand, I am trying to get funding for my PhD which is all about modern domesticity, and have done huge amounts of study and work on the subject already, so I do actually know what I am talking about when I say things like 'studies show' when talking about division of labour. And yes, studies do still show appalling discrepancies between men and women in that area. I'm not the sort of person who thinks 'well, life is like this for a few people I know, so it must be true for everyone' - if I make a claim, I only do so when I know I can back it up with fact.

Naturally, I'm not claiming all men are like that, just like I'm not claiming that all men are crap compared to my DP. When I read other people's comments I automatically read the nuances inherent in them, instead of taking every single word for black and white and I presume other people do the same. If you don't then I dunno what else to say on the matter. You've clearly decided to take affront to what I've said - why not just try seeing other people's comments as their opinions, which is all they are, instead of thinking others are claiming things or trying to insult? Works for me!

PS the OP started this thread as a result of things me, her and others have been discussing elsewhere, so a small percentage of my comments have been a bit of a continuation of that and others on this thread are aware of that.

londonlottie the man suggesting that women take a fertility test at aged 30 is... a scientist who invented a fertility MOT test...

But, if we're going to go down this road. Suppose I took that test at aged 27 and it said "amber light, please get pregnant asap" - are you advocating that I get a cock up me from anyone available at the time?

London lottie Yes, I'm sure quoting dry academic studies ad infinitum on MN threads would be highly appropriate, make me really popular and not spoil things at all. I forgot this was Critical Theory Journal (or similar), not mumsnet. Oh Christ, you're going to google 'critical theory journal' now, to see if there really is such a publication, aren't you? LIGHTEN UP!

The name of this thread is 'Completely unscientific poll for over 30s TTC'. The bit that says 'Completely unscientific' is the giveaway that we're allowed to be a bitter or moany if we wish. Saying that most of my friends have partners that don't pull their weight re: housework is hardly an 'extreme picture'. Why am I even bothering replying to this? You've made your mind up that I'm saying certain things and insisting they're true and you're wrong. I've reread what I've wrote and you've misconstrued me. You're hijacking this thread with your nitpicking. Let's get back to discussing what it's supposed to be about - I don't want other people who want to join in to be put off because they think it's turned into me and you arguing about bollocks.

londonlottie He "invented" a "test bundle" which can be readily bought by women wanting to investigate their fertility. He would (is?) marketing it as an off-the-shelf package.

I have it on very good intelligence that he's also marketing a humour injection for those suffering the ill-effects of the bypass.

I very much agree with the premise of this thread, i.e. there is a ridiculous emphasis on these supposed control freak 30+ career bitches "delaying" childbirth, and no mention of the fact that it takes 2 to tango, so where are the responsible would-be fathers when you need them? I get enraged every time I see the same old lines trotted out again.

I will side-step the little, er, discussion about scorpette's DH () but can I say that I disagree with one thing lottie said. That is, I don't think it's fair to say I was responsible for not meeting the right guy in my 20s. In my case, I was seriously searching for a guy from about age 21 onwards. All I wanted was a NICE GUY. Not too hard you might think. I was very open minded. I kissed A LOT of frogs. I did not waste years staying in dead end relationships. Yet when did I meet my DH? Aged 34!!

I finally had DD 6 days before my 40th birthday. I will put my hand up and admit that, yes, I was once a CEO. But I think that's irrelevant as I frankly don't care about my career any more. And I did not put off TTC because of my career. We had other factors. We didn't TTC straight away because we had only just met! Also we married, moved country, started new jobs from scratch, had nothing, and needed 2 incomes just to get on our feet, as DH had been in full time study. I believe we started TTC as soon as we possibly could. In fact, we actually decided to start sooner than planned, as in the end we ignored the need for maternity leave qualification and just went for it.

If I had met my DH 10 years earlier I would be a new mum at 30, not 40. Yes, I would rather that had happened. But DH himself admits that if I had met him 10 years earlier he was just as hopeless as all the other immature bastards I was working my way through looking for Mr Right Nice Guy, you'll do. I can't see how I could have done it differently.

Scorpette you and londonlottie are both making very good points, so it isn't arguing about bollocks. I think in many ways you're agreeing vehemently as I think you're both right

That man you were with who strung you along like that was an utter, utter shit. I love how he didn't even think he was doing anything wrong, even though he was potentially ruining your life and denying you something so important to you

Before DH and I got together he went out with a girl for 5 years from the ages of about 26 to 31 (him, not sure how old she was). I remember him telling me one drunken evening about how (not that long before they broke up) she started hinting that they should get married. He was genuinely shocked by this and really put out

My response was "WTF did you think was going on?"

As far as he was concerned marriage was never on the cards. She had never brought it up and it didn't occur to him that she was thinking along those lines. Like a lot of men I know, he is ver literal about things like that.

I've seen this myself with friends and girlfriends of friends - women so afraid of "scaring him off" that they never say what they want. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but you lose nothing by making it clear what you want and whether the man you're with is up for it too. Well other than a man who doesn't love you that way, isn't interested in those things, or who is just going along for an easy life (far too common from what I see).

I agree with lottie about women putting up with stuff they shouldn't and not holding men to high enough standards. You can expect men to be decent, responsible adults and if you refuse to accept any less you're more likely to meet one of the ones who is.