PCOS and hCG Levels

[Clwc]

Hello all,

Apologies if this has been discussed previously.

I have been reading more and more about a link between PCOS and difficult to detect hCG levels during early pregnancy, making HPTs almost useless for many weeks.

Having been diagnosed with PCOS and hypothyroidism, I was once told, by a doctor, that different hormone disorders often go hand in hand. If that is the case, could it be that, even if a PCOS 'sufferer' were to become pregnant, not enough hCG would be produced to keep the pregnancy? Or has my thinking/knowledge gone to pot?

Does anyone have any thoughts on (1) the use of HPTs with PCOS and (2) the production of hCG when affected by PCOS?

That was long and my head's spinning. Hope I didn't just cure your insomnia!

xx

Hi all.
It's been really interesting reading this thread as a fellow PCOS'r. I've being TTC for a year now and am wondering what to do next. I think I'll go to GP and ask more about hormones and TTC after reading all these comments. I've had blood tests done, one month I'd ovulated and one month I hadn't. Not sure what's going on with my insides!! Extra confusing factor is that I conceived very easily 3 times before (2 DC's aged 5 and 8 and one MC at 12 weeks) BUT with my previous DH. I am now wondering if it's more than just my PCOS thats the prob I also think I've had an early MC this time trying too as loads of symptoms and then a long 'cylce' with symptoms stopping just before AF. Cycle all over the place too. Its all sooooo confusing.

Sorry for the ramble! Good luck to you all.

Hi
Happy birthday clwc!
Hi Butterfly, its really interesting isn't it and PCOS is such a confusing condition as it affects women in different ways so we can't all understand what each other are going through. For me I am not overweight or suffer with excess hair, its spots and no periods for me!!

I went to see the consultant today and he said I should take Norethisterone to induce a period then Clomid. He is seeing me again in 3 months.

I am thinking of giving Metformin another month before taking the Norethisterone as it worked last time but did take a while. I am also going to have an ultrasound of my ovaries/pelvis to see what is going on in there too.

I'll keep you posted

Hi Sockthing.

What is Metformin? I've seen it mentioned a few times. When I looked it up it said it was a drug to treat diabetes and wasn't available to women with PCOS although it did help the condition. Is it something that can help conception when suffering with PCOS?

It does sound like many women are affected in different ways with PCOS. I have the facial hair and tendency to gain weight easily. Periods seems to be happening but not sure if I actually ovulate very often.

I hope all goes well with the scan. Its good to get an idea of what's going on in there and how things are looking. Hope it gives you some positive results.

Hm. I don't know what's happened to SockThing. No doubt she'll be back soon.

Well, butterfly. It's good that you found us. Sorry about your early mc. I think I just had one too, but, obviously, HPTs showed no sign.

Metformin is a diabetes drug, not currently licensed for PCOS, but often the first step for treatment. It controls blood sugar levels in the body. Most overweight PCOSers have some level of insulin resistance, and this is what Metformin is prescribed to treat (after a fasting glucose blood test), with the main aim of avoiding the insulin resistance developing in to full-blown diabetes. Met should also help with the many unpleasant side-effects of insulin resistance, including weight gain, cystic acne (boils), dark skin patches, etc. askapatient.com provides details of side-effects of the drug on diabetes and PCOS patients.

I have an appointment with the gynae in July. I hope that she will be able to prescribe Met to me.

Have you tried Clomid, butterfly? x

Hi
Sorry for disappearing, been so busy the last few days.

Butterfly, Clwc described Metformin brilliantly for you. If you read some stories on verity (the PCOS website) it can be a wonder drug for some ladies, unfortunately I think because I am not overweight it doesn't work as well in me. Although last time I was on it it did start my cycles again (after no AF for a year!). I was having AF every 50-55 days which to me was fab but Clomid was added and I got pg.

Hope you are prescribed Metformin in July Clwc.

I think I will take the Norethisterone in mid June so I can hopefully take the Clomid in July some time and see what happens.

Keep in touch!

hi all...... this thread is great, its like you are in my head

have been ttc for 2 years, concieved once but it was ectopic.... have just found out i have pcos and have an appointment on monday to discuss treatment. Ive heard alot about clomid.... is this the most commen treatment?

how long after starting clomid did any of you notice a difference? excuse me for my questions a little anxious about monday.

Hello Suzibhoy et al, its been good to rad this thread for me. I have PCOS and am in my 2nd cycle with Clomid. 28, TTC for 18 months, PCOS symptoms varied but certainly not over weight.

I am on CD 30 or a usually 30-33 day cycle so getting my hopes up at this point. Clomid has been great for me as my consultant doesn't believe I was ovulating before and clearly now that I am (confirmed in recent blood test) that gives us a lot better chance of conception.

One thing my consultant did advise against was pee sticks, said they were rubbish and not to bother if you have PCOS so we might be back to the beginning of this thread again and hormone imbalance!

Good luck to all!

Hi All

Seems like we all have a lot in common with the flippin PCOS!

Thanks for all the tips and information. My GP did the blood tests but never followed it all up so I feel more prepared to go and chat to her about all this. My consultant did a laproscopy and said I had PCOS but discharged me from her list and sent me back to the GP. Its very frustrating.

Very interesting about the wee sticks thing though. The time I think I had an early MC nothing showed on the wee sticks even though I felt convinced I was PG. I remember how I felt the previous times I had been and it was exactly the same. I guess the hormone thing could well be true.

Good luck for Monday SuziBhoy Don't let them fob you off. I wish I'd been more
persistent now.

Take care all. Good to read these posts and know I'm not alone

Welcome Suzi
I'm glad you found us

Clomid isn't the main treatment for PCOS. Its aim is to induce ovulation in anovulatory (not ovulating) patients. I have taken Clomid, but wasn't monitored. It was prescribed to me by my GP, although she shouldn't have because the surgery doesn't have the resources to monitor me properly. At the very minimum, I should have had a blood test at CD 21 to see if Clomid had worked (ie I'd ovulated). Most girls have earlier scans as well, to see if any follicles are ready to pop. Whatever happens, make sure you are going to be monitored!!

I'm sure I did ovulate the first month, and I believe I was pg (could also have been Clomid side-effects). However, HPTs didn't indicate pregnancy, so I began the second cycle when I started what I though was AF.

It works for a great many women, and I wish you luck, should you be prescribed it.

If you need more info about it, there are a number of great threads on mumsnet dedicated to ladies TTC with Clomid. xx

Hello Tigress

Did your consultant mean OPKs when s/he said 'pee sticks'? I have read many times that PCOS throws OPKs off, especially if you are taking Clomid, but some women claim that they still work for them. I think a lot of this TTC malarkey is pot luck, especially for us PCOSers

If s/he meant HPTs, then it's interesting to hear someone in the profession who actually knows PCOS a bit more in-depth than most. Have you tried a HPT yet? xx

And last, but not least... Nice to see you back, SockThing xx

thanks ladies

your so right about being persistent butterfly, i dont know how many times ive argued with the doctors to do more tests... and the hospital and gp keep passing me about. sometimes you think they cant be bothered.

cant believe they never monitored you Clwc, that must have been frustrating. thanks for the advice

well ladies, had my appointment today and i will be getting the clomid treatment.... got to go to a fertility clinic for another few tests first, so hopefully i will get started soon

it feels good when you know somethings getting done!!

how is everyone?

Great news, Suzi

Best of luck with Clomid. I hope it works for you really quickly. xx

Hi

I love Metformin! After 114 days I had AF without having to use the Norethisterone! So I am now CD5 and on day 4 of Clomid eeek!

Having u/s scan on 17 June which will be CD21 (originally booked to see what was going on with my ovaries, maybe will hopefully tell me if I am going to ov?) and CD21 blood test same day.

Just thought I would let you know as I am so chuffed I didn't have to take the Norethisterone.

x

Nice one! Did you always have to take Norethoojamawotsit progesterone before?

I wasn't monitored whilst on Clomid. It's strange that you're getting such a late u/s scan. They're normally for monitoring follicle size pre-ov. Then the CD21 bloods are to see if you have already ov'd. Hm.

Have you lost weight on Metformin? I'm hoping I will... That is, if they let me have it

Ah no, the u/s was because I hadn't had AF since starting Met so it was just a look inside IYSWIM. It has coincided with being CD21 thats all. The only monitoring on Clomid I am having is the CD21 blood test.

I've never had the progesterone before and didn't really want to take it so I am so chuffed I didn't need to. Last time I had cycles of 50ish days on Met alone.

I have lost a bit of weight through Met, mainly loss of appetite rather than the dreaded "met" belly. I haven't had bad side effects on it although I am not overweight, thats not one of my PCOS symptoms - its acne and no AF for me!!

I hope they give you Met, its brilliant.

Ah. I see.

I've read that Met should be introduced gradually, e.g. 250mg each day for the first week, 500 for the second, etc. Then the side effects aren't as severe. I'd like to be on it, in case I do fall pg, so that I have a better chance of producing the required hCG to carry the pg to term, rather than m/c-ing in the first few weeks.

I don't suffer with bad acne, but being overweight from insulin resistance has caused a few skin complaints that I'm none too proud of. My cycles have been regular for the past few years, in that I get PMT every month, I want to 'do the deed' at certain times every month, and I have a couple of extra spots just before AF time... But AF often doesn't come. Everything but the actual period. It's weird. And it has been the same since puberty; before I started to gain weight.

Hello Ladies, Just stumbled on your thread by accident - what you are talking about makes sense to me...

I'll try to be brief....!

diagnosed pcos after ttc for about a year (knew something was wrong because my cycles were so long - sometimes 70 days +)
Was put on Metformin and sent down the IVF route because of DP's slightly low normality sperm count.
Not long after this DH was diagnosed with testicular cancer so IVF was put on hold.
In the meantime I did Metformin and accupunture and within a few months cycles settled down to 36 days and I got EWCM every month which I know isn't conclusive but a fairly good indication of ovulation?
DH's treatment included chemo which gave him 50/50 chance of infertility so we carried on down down the IVF route with frozen sperm.
We had 2 attempts - first didn't work, 2nd did but had a really slow hcg rise which ended up in mc at 8 weeks (never progressed past gestational sac)
Through all this carried on with metformin (cycles kept stable at 36 days bar a little blip after mc)
A couple of weeks ago we were due to make an appointment to see if the chemo had effected DH's fertiltity further when I felt aware of tingling in my boobs... did a test and to my massive surprise I was pregnant!!
I haven't had my hcg measured but I've been using the cb conception indicators tests and It seems to be climbing as it should?
Had a scan at what I thought was dead on 6 weeks only to see another empty sac (throughly devastated at the prospect of exactly the same thing happening again!)
On thursday I begged my GP to get me in to the EPAU unit so they could confirm mc and help me sort it out... to my total shock and delight was a little yolk sac, baby and heartbeat - que tears! My dates were 4 days out and that made all the difference.
I'm still worried that pcos puts me at increased risk of mc but I feel that the odds of that have slipped at least a little.
Going to carry on with the metformin until 3 months and hope it helps keep this bean sticky!!

I wish you lots of luck in your quests x

Thank-you for 'stumbling', mowmi

It sounds as though you have been through a heck of a lot to get to where you are now. Congratulations on your BFP!

GPs are difficult creatures. I explained to one GP that I would like to be prescribed Met. She said I'd have to get it from the FC, but also that you shouldn't take it when pg. I told her that I didn't agree because Met helps with progesterone levels, or something. I just wish I could speak to someone who knows what they're talking about, and also takes me seriously.

Take care xx

Bump

Hi
Mowmi, I was reading your post and hoping you were going to say things turned out well, I am so pleased you had a positive scan and I hope everything progresses as it should and you have a happy & healthy 9 months! I am so envious of ladies who have a "cycle" and can test on a certain date and get a +ve or -ve and know for sure!

I had my scan today to see what is going on inside me and (bearing in mind I am on CD21 of a 50mg Clomid cycle) there wasn't much activity! The sonographer said by CD21 on a "normal" 28 day cycle she would expect to see the collapsed follicle where the egg had been released last week but she could only see lots of small follicles - immature eggs I guess. She said there is no dominant follicle ripening to ovulate either

Feel quite down now after the elation of having AF on my own and taking Clomid.

I am going to carry on BDing 2-3 times a week and try not to obsess as I know I am not going to ov in the next week or so so there is no pressure. Then wait for next AF I guess. It has happened for me before and I know I ov'd late on then (about day 35 I think) so I have to just hope I am a late ov'er - if there is such a thing!

How are things with you clwc?

X

Hello SockThing

Long time no see. I'm OK. I'm approximately CD 40 now. Had some spotting yesterday, nothing today, feel out of sorts, numerous BFNs, still no proper period. Don't think I ov'd last month. My cons appointment has been pushed back from the 3rd to the 31st July. So I guess I'm just waiting for things to get going. x x x x

I am sock thing!

Ahh that's a bit of a let down, your appointment being pushed back. I know how you feel on the waiting waiting waiting. I can't imagine what it feels like to have a proper cycle and be able to track ovulation and know when you are due to come on AF, it would be fab!

I am CD27 today but not waiting for AF! Hoping to OV at some point. Wishful thinking! We both need to just keep BDing and waiting! Combined with my low HCG levels I will be 14 weeks before I know it again I bet!!! I want to know nice and early next time!

Keep in touch!

Sorry, the thread disappeared off my radar.
So, Josie123 = SockThing?
Did you ovulate this month?
My period started last Saturday. I'm hpoing it'll stop soon. I miss the BDing!