Trying to fall pregnant after sadly terminating a pregnancy diagnosed woth downs syndrome

[juelgaz]

Hi, I am new to mumsnet, any one out there who can advise me after terminating a pregnancy last december due to diagnosis of downs syndrome.i now would like to try again, but am very nervous.

I agree elliot. If you want to discus the ethics of such a situation it may be best to start a new thread. Whatever you reasons for a termination I think you will find that there a very few women who NEVER have any regrets. I don't think its ever a black and white situation or any 'easy' decision to make.

I agree elliot. If you want to discus the ethics of such a situation it may be best to start a new thread. Whatever you reasons for a termination I think you will find that there a very few women who NEVER have any regrets. I don't think its ever a black and white situation or any 'easy' decision to make.

I wasn't criticising Elliot!! It was a genuine query. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone.

I personally would not choose to terminate a pregnancy after a diagnosis of Downs. My situation, however is vastly different from Pie's for example.

I just wondered what the trigger was to terminate and where the line would get drawn at terminating for what is obviously seen as a 'less than perfect' foetus?

I shall bow out of this discussion where certain queries don't seem to be welcomed.

Hi girls
I actually rushed back from lunch about to retract my 2nd comment, (not the 1st,) asking why people came to their decision. I didn't intend to pry I was just genuinley interested, esp in what the doctors had told them it might be like; but while walking round Sainsbury's I thought it a bit unfair for me to ask so was going to apologise, in fact I do apologise for asking that particular question, i really didn't mean to offend. I didn't reasise how sensitive I was on the subject and in turn didn't take time to think deeply about the mothers feeling who terminated because of Downs. I do however stand by my first comments about it not having to be the case and just wanted to point it out to any expectant mothers going through what we have. It's a hard topic and difficult to be open & honest without upsetting each other.
I just felt I HAD to point out my feelings and that my daughter has no heart, or any health problems. she is incredibly bright and sure will be be slightly slower than some other kids but is healthy, happy etc.
So Pie, Elliot & Seahorse, sorry if I offened, really I am, I onlyu meant to point out the other side as I felt there was a negative vibe and I had to balance it out a bit
Jasper and Mum2Toby, thanks for your comments and support.
Lets all kiss and make up girls!

I think this all boils down to freedom of choice and circumstance. There will always be strongly coflicting views on this subject - too complex and heated really to discuss in this arena - nothing will be achieved except offending people...IMO

Thanks Thomcat.

Just wanted to say Thomcat how much I have enjoyed reading about Charlotte. It's just very nice to hear such positive things about children with DS (that goes for Eidsvold too). Two of my childhood friends had sisters with DS and they were lovely.

I wasn't offended (well, only by the throwaway comment about IVF - I read Mindy's story in her previous postings, had found it very moving, and thought she was being challenged rather unfairly). There have been many interesting and thought provoking discussions about this topic elsewhere on mumsnet - I certainly don't think its too difficult for us to handle! I just didn't think this thread was the the place for querying individuals decisions, that's all.
No grudges lingering here

I'm assume you mean MY comment Elliot??? If so, then it's my turn to be offended that any of my questions should be considered 'throw away'!

Bells2, how lovely of you, you gave me a rush of goose pimples up my legs!!!
Mum2Toby - you and I shaould go off and have our own chats about stuff!! You sound fab as well!

As for the rest of this conversation, look negative-ish SOINDING comments sparked me to balance things up for other Mums just reading through and then it lead on to another debate. Sorry we'll go and start another thread and have out little say elsewhere!!

Like I said, let's kiss and make-up! It's a sensitive issue and I for one got all sensitive about it initially I have to admit.
If you could just see Lottie! The 7 pictures of her grinning out at me from around my desk made it difficult to read comments about terminating a child with DS. Obviously Pie's situation is completley different to mine and I wasn't judging. I just needed to do a bit of ying and yang, you know.

i'm worn out now! Must do some work, but have to say - Pie, good luck to you and your hubby, hope everything works out OK for you and if I haven't upset you I'd like to know how you get on and will try my best to be supportive if needs be.

Much love - to you ALL - thomcat xx

Right Mum2Toby, meet up with ypu on a different thread later!

I don't hold grudges either. Just as ThomCat was trying to say there is an alternative I just wanted to to support the mums on this thread who have made a hard decision; where nothing is what it seems.

I'm feeling really emotional anyway at the moment...have been having nightmares with long needles and getting about 4 hours sleep a day for the past 2 weeks!

I have to say that after being in hospital for most of this pregnancy and having had a miscarriage before I will not be trying for another baby EVER again. I can't go through this again, no matter how this pregnancy turns out. My husband is already looking into the snip.

I do admire you ThomCat for obviously being a very giving mother, your DD is lucky to have you.

Thanks Pie.
I wish you health & happiness, good luck.

Hi Thomcat - I could come up with lots of excuses about why I had a termination when I found out my child had DS, but I try not to attempt to justify that decision to myself or anyone else. I know that what I did is completely wrong in any moral sense, and sometimes I find the guilt almost overwhelming. But on another level of consciousness, I'm convinced I did the right thing. It's a strange situation, when something so appalling (ending the life of your child), that would be condemned by society at any other time, is allowed and supported by authority in the form of medical professionals.

It's great to hear how happy your wee girl has made you and your family. If that doesn't sound too hypocritical coming from me. (I think you're absolutely justified in commenting on this by the way - it is life and death we're talking about, after all. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not offended by you fighting your dd's corner.)

Hi Rosy and thank you for your reply. I'm so glad you weren't upset or offened by anything I said, I just wanted to point out that it needn't been an awful thing, but I totally understand your feelings. I think when you said that you had had a a new baby boy who was wonderful in every way, that got me a bit and I felt incredibly deffensive for Charlotte, can you understand? I'm sure, in fact I know you didn't mean it in the way I took it at that time, it was just a knee jerk reaction. All said and done Rosy you're brave to have gone through with such a difficult decision and I'm very glad everyhting worked out OK for you. Congratulations on the birth of your son. Look forward to chatting with you in the future, TC x

I have avoided this thread for the very same reason as Thomcat, but I don't think it helps the mothers in this situation to be criticising them now, they've made their decision and the past cannot be changed.

My nephew has Downs and the heart defect that often accompanies this syndrome. The docs told my sister all the worst possible outcomes and scenarios and suggested it might be kinder to end the pregnancy, she was 25 weeks. She refused. When my nephew was born he had to have open heart surgery at 3 months, he was very ill for a time. But he recovered. Now his immune system is weak, he is forever picking up bugs, and his physical and mental development is behind (but he was in and out of hospital for 9 months). However not all the doctors' bad omens came true, he 18 months old and smiles, sits up, makes dada noises, laughs and so on. He is a true delight! There are many people out there with Downs and you would never know by looking at them, some have very mild versions indeed, but doctors cannot tell how bad the Downs will be by the tests alone, that is only known as the child is growing up.
I also have a brother with severe learning disabilities and I work at a school supporting pupils with special needs. So it is a topic that is close to my heart.

It is sad that most doctors do give the worst case scenarios, which are a factor in influencing mothers' decisions. But most mums know what they would do if the amnio tests come back as positive. This thread was set up to support mums who have made that hard decision, and so I truly think they should be left alone to support each other. However if you want to start an alternative thread Thomcat, I would happily join you.

Hi Rhubarb
I don't think at any point I've critised any of th mothers. I just wanted to make sure people reading through were aware of some plus/positive things and asked them to look in the special needs section. Then things kind of kicked off and I tried to end this thread really but since then I've just been responding to people's comments when my name was mentioned, and all comments have been very nice and very positive I replied to Pie & Rosy and wished them all the luck etc etc. But yeah sure I'd be more than happy to chat to you anywhere. Girls you have your thread back for it's original purpose, sorry I butted in but hope you understand why.
Love Thomcat xx

Just back from holiday and I am shocked at the responses from my original message.I know that it is a very personal decision to make and whilst hoping to find support from others who had been through the same as me, I did'nt realise that I would spark off such a strong debate.
As I said in my original message, I take my hat off to families who love and bring up a child with Downs Syndrome, but I felt that it was not the right choice for my family. I know fine well that there are many happy children and adults out there who live happy lives whilst bringing so much joy to the people around them even though they suffer from Downs. The guilt and hurt I feel when I see them is indescribable. Only someone who has been through termination for these reasons will fully understand, and I realise that I need the support from these people, and would like to think that I could support someone who was going through a similar situation. That is the wonderful thing about the internet, it allows people to share support, and helps you to relise that you are not alone.

Thanks for your message Batters, I have had alot of support and I am truely grateful for all of those who gave it. I will continue to use mumsnet, to be honest it is a God send to be able to talk to people who have experienced similar things.I hope that one day through mumsnet, I will be able to make a differance to someone elses life, who needs support in similar circumstances.

Juelgaz - I hope you realised that my earlier comments were how I felt about myself & my own actions, and not anybody else's. And I hope you continue to feel the support from Mumsnet - two people particularly were really supportive to me at the time. As I remember, 3-4 months later were the worst time for me, but it gets better.

Thomcat - about being defensive for your dd, I understand completely and I'm sorry that I caused you upset, however unintentionally.

Juelgaz, ThomCat, Rosy (Rosy already knows this ) Mumsnet postings can bring support to people in a wider way than you might imagine. When my son Tom died of causes unknown the womb at 22 weeks, I turned to Rosy's brave post about the birth of little Rosy. More than anything else I read or was told in the two horrible days waiting for him to be born, her account helped me face the prospect of his birth. I knew if she could do it, and survive it, so could I. I am now 26 weeks pregnant, have had a very nervous pregnancy so far, but despite being nearly 40, I opted out of invasive testing, partly because I was terrified of losing the baby. If our child is born with Downs (a possibility even with our quite good nuchal result), I hope I'll be as inspiring a mum as ThomCat and Eidsvold are.
Juelgaz, I hope you had a good break and get plenty of support as you prepare to TTC. Nice to see you back.

Hi
like juelgaz I logged on last night for the first time in a week or so and was upset by some of these postings - I started to write a long thread and decided it was not the best time to respond,
I have been thinking about it today,

I have drawn support from hearing of others in the same situation to me and the knowledge we can help each other, reading Rosys message last year was the first time I had spoken with someone who had been in the same situation as me and just knowing that made a big difference.

Our decisions are personnal and each to our own - just because we have done something that someone else necessarily would not, it does not follow that it was an easy decision to make or live with.
I wonder how things would have turned out if I had not known in advance.

juelgaz - hope you had a good holiday, I have emailed tech with my details for you.

Hi again, Rosy - please don't apologise you have no need, I was upset initially but only becuase as a parent I was incredibly deffensive and I know you didn't mean the way I initally took your comment.
And to Juelgaz and Mindy i hope I wasn't one of the people to have hurt you. I keep logging back on to this site to make sure there isn't anyone I've upset. I hope when you read my first comment you realise I wasn't critising you in any way and just wanted to point out the special needs section to other readers in case they were in the middle of having to make huge and difficult decision like yourselves. It's a difficult and sensitive subject so i'm sorry if I did offend you, it was never my intention. I just wanted to let people, and you if you were nervous about it happening again, that it's not always as bad as we think it might be, but full support to your decisions.

I just need to come out in support of Thomcat here too. I contributed to a thread very similiar to this one when my nephew had just been born with Downs. All in all the other mothers, including the ones who had terminated their pregnancies, were very supportive and understood my need to tell my own story of my experiences with children who have special needs. Rosy was particularly understanding and I have nothing but admiration and respect for her.

This is a very senstitive topic, and as someone said, everyone is entitled to make their own decisions and not to be criticised for that. But there really is no criticism of any kind here. You must realise that there are mothers on Mumsnet who have children with special needs and they do get understandably defensive when there is talk of terminating a pregnancy because the baby has Downs. Just as each one of you probably gets upset when you see a child with Downs yourselves. It is so close to the bone. But I have been impressed with the dignity at which people have expressed themselves, and the tact and sensitivity they have shown to others. This thread does stand out as a very good example of a supportive thread, as it tolerates views from both sides.

So please do not get upset just because someone else has had a different experience than you, or has a different take on things than you. Do understand their point of view and how upsetting it is for them too. By welcoming other people's views we can really make this a brilliant thread for other mothers who may find themselves contemplating the same situation.

Now I really don't think we need Thomcat to apologise any more do we?