Confused about dates & symptoms - please help

[catsmother]

Hi all, I'd be really grateful for some collective wisdom.

A bit of background - I am 44 (yikes) - and TTC what will be my 3rd. I have an almost 19 year old (when I was 25) and a 5 year old (when I was almost 39).

Decided to start TTC in June ..... fell almost immediately but miscarried at 7 wks at the start of Sept. Got pregnant almost immediately again, but m/c again at the end of Nov. I also miscarried when I was 37.

Anyhow ...... stupid though it seems given my age I had been somewhat blase (felt young, looked young, reasonably fit blah blah blah) but am now upset and hyper-sensitive to all things conception related ..... absolutely petrified I've left it too late, & also absolutely petrified of conceiving again because the 1st 12 weeks will be a hell of "checking". Am only just starting to take an interest in what my body does and when, and have been keeping a diary since the start of this year.

My confusion is this ........ I've always counted the 1st day of my period as when you get a steady flow of red blood ..... yet last month, I had 5 days of light brown spotting before that flow began ..... so my diary reads "day 1 / day 6 ?" as I'm not sure where to start counting. However, not surprisingly have also become far more conscious of when I'm ovulating and having bought a salivascope, it appeared this happened on day 15 (had ferning pattern for days 14-16) if you take the red blood as the starting point, but if you include the earlier spotting I would have ovulated on day 20 if that makes sense ??

Fast forward to today ..... which is day 24 (or day 29) and I have had some very light pinkish spotting. Could this be implantation bleeding, or is it the start of my next period. If it's the start of another period, it seems a wee bit odd if I ovulated that late but maybe I am grasping at straws.

I have sore breasts and am not normally aware of this before a period but then I'm not normally actively on red alert for pregnancy symptoms.

I know no-one can really answer me and I just have to wait. My main concerns are about logging the progress of my period - should it be as soon as you notice any type of blood or only when it's red, and whether it's likely you'd ovulate around 8 days before a period.

Thanks to anyone who's taken the time to read all that and reply.

I'm sorry I'm not much help, but I usually count cd1 as the first day of any sign of af lasts for me for 4-5 days, and usually ovulate around cd19 although this month it was cd11 I know what you mean about not really 'knowing' your body...you'd think after 4 I would know whats going on by now

Good luck with ttc, hope it happens soon for you. x

Day 1 is the first day of proper flow ie. you need a pad or tampon so you are quite right. Just make a note of the spotting.
Its possible to ovulate later during some cycles than others.
Sometimes you body can appear to gear up for ov and then it gets delayed for some reason. We are just very complicated animals ! LOL !
Do you use OPKs ? I find then more help than the microscope which just tells you about oestrogen levels.
You will get more in tune with your body doing this but its so easy to drive yourself crazy trying to make sense of all this stuff - I do it all the time !
Good luck,

Bea x

Great book to read is Toni Weschler's Taking Charge of Your Fertility - explains how to understand and record your cycles. I seem to remember that 1st day of period should be first day of bleeding, not spotting. But that book explains everything. Good luck!

Hi catsmother

Would liek to initially say that I was very sorry to read of your miscarriages. I hope you received and continue to receive support. The Miscarriage Association are worth contacting.

Given your recent gynae history as well I would not delay seeing a gynae. I would have blood tests done around day 3 in your cycle to determine what your hormone levels are now like, particularly your FSH levels. It may be that your FSH is very high now. This will determine your egg quality.

Given your age this is important to properly establish now. Do not delay unduly. I would refrain from using the salivascope as it probably won't be at all helpful.

Any bleeding between periods should be investigated further to ascertain the cause.
Proper red blood flow would be the first day of a period. The problem is as well is that periods can occur without ovulation actually taking place.

Sorry if all the above sounds disheartening but would not delay any further if you are ttc.

Thanks for all the responses.

Went to see my very sympathetic and kind GP who referred me to the consultant straight away because of my age ..... who (the consultant) in turn told me that because I'd not had 3 consecutive m/cs they wouldn't do any investigations - in spite of my age.

Was told that if I conceive again to take baby aspirin & consultant also wrote to GP to recommend early hormone treatment - BUT - I am well aware that these methods will only help to keep a viable pregnancy .... and that a blighted one would (probably) miscarry anyway.

Unfortunately there is no way in the world I can afford to seek private help so I just have to keep trying, hope I conceive and hope it's okay - or else by the time I "qualify" for NHS investigation I will be god knows what age.

It's very hard to remain optimistic and I can't help feeling that a lot of people will think I'm stupid for even hoping to conceive at my age - & that effectively I deserve whatever I get. However, my GP said that it was entirely up to each individual when and how they have their families - and as many of you probably appreciate, life doesn't always deal you the cards which mean you can have the x no. of kids you want at the time you'd ideally have wanted them (both physically and circumstantially). I've also had a lot of anecdoctal evidence (and read threads on here) about older mums and in one way, am kinda encouraged by the fact I fell pregnant so quickly twice in succession (though am then brought back down to earth almost immediately after such thoughts because I imagine all my remaining eggs are "bad").

It IS helpful that most of you have confirmed "proper" bleeding is day 1. At least I have something definite to count from now. The comments about the salivascope are interesting too ..... will definitely look at using OPKs Beamel - though you're right, I will probably drive myself a bit more mad doing so. I only started using the salivascope because a friend had found it useful .... but why do you think it wouldn't be helpful Attila ?

Oh gawd ..... at the end of the day, it basically more or less boils down to luck doesn't it !

catsmother I'm really surprised at that consultant, have you not had any investigations done at all ? Your GP can order some simple blood tests and if I were in your shoes I would ask for another referral for a second opinion.

I'm 43 and TTC number 1. You're so right about the hand life deals you - I've been married three months and am going to give it my best shot although probably won't go as far as IVF. Have my gynae appt next week.

I've been temping which is useful cos its confirmed I do ovulate, OPKs which tell you when ov is approaching and CM checking. The microscope is useful in combination with the other signs. Before all this we were timing BD all wrong. I've pretty much worked out my cycle now which is important for us as DH travels a lot.

You are certainly stupid doing this. Women of our age do get pregnant, and there are things we can do to stack the odds in our favour !

Bea x

P.S. Check this out www.thestar.com/article/588951

Hi catsmother,

I would agree with beamel in asking to be re-referred to another subfertility unit preferably as well in the city nearest you. It is also fair to say that some NHS subfertility units are far better than others.

The fact that you were told that as you have not had 3 consecutive m/cs no tests will be done is appalling, not just to say heartless.

Women in their early to mid 40s can and do get pg but a lot of them as well will need medical help to conceive due to overall poor egg quality amongst other factors like fallopian tube damage, sperm issues and polycystic ovaries. Many celebs in their say mid to late 40s who sometimes appear holding their baby have used egg donation. Nothing wrong with that but that particular fact is often not mentioned. Cherie Blair is very fertile but I think she is more an exception than the rule. Tests must be done as a matter of course to establish egg quality. A HSG (tubal x-ray) to check the state of your fallopian tubes could and should also be done.

Your egg quality certainly should be looked at closely now hence blood tests. As time passes the overall quality of eggs can fall. It is certainly a potential problem.

The salivascope won't actually give any useful information and could just tie you up further up in knots. OPK's are also beset with problems in that they work on two misleading principles - namely that a woman only has one rise in LH every month and that such a rise is immediately followed by ovulation. Those statements are not true.
I would therefore refrain from using either method.

With best wishes

Attila x