Recurrent Chemical Pregnancies

[charlzz]

I have cross posted this so apologies!

TW: Recurrent chemicals

Hi everyone. I was looking for some advice really, and maybe some friendly people I can stay in touch with who have been through a similar situation.

TLDR: Trying to conceive my second child for 8 months. 3 consecutive early losses/chemical pregnancies. Looking for answers.

In April, May, and June I had 3 consecutive chemical pregnancies. For all three I've had darkening tests, followed by them getting lighter then I bleed. The first one was around 5 weeks, the following 2 were just a day or two after my period was due.

I went to my GP after the second, who was pretty dismissive but agreed to do some basic blood tests (iron, thyroid, vitamin levels) but nothing hormonal. The only relevant thing these showed were low vitamin D, which I'm now supplementing. They also showed low white blood cells and neutrophils (but I always have this so don't think it's relevant) and a slightly raised ALT (liver enzyme) which they are rechecking.

Now I've had a third chemical, they have reluctantly agreed to refer me to the recurrent miscarriage clinic but the wait is likely to be at least a year.

This cycle I took a break from trying and checked my progesterone privately. It was 45.5nmol/L at day 21 which looks pretty strong, and indicates I'm ovulating well. My luteal phase is anywhere from 11 to 14 days, although during my third chemical I started spotting at 9dpo. ChatGPT did say I could potentially still look at progesterone suppositories as my levels may not be staying high enough to sustain a pregnancy, but obviously I've got no way of knowing if that is good advice or not, and no way of getting progesterone anyway as I doubt my doctor would agree to prescribe it.

Up until this month I was still breastfeeding my 17 month old. I've now stopped as I convinced myself it may be affecting my hormones. So we will see if that helps at all.

Does anyone have any other advice or ideas of what I could do to try to have a healthy pregnancy?

Had the first couple of basic tests at the fertility clinic today. Only an internal scan and AMH blood test, and my husband's sperm analysis. Not got the results of the tests yet but my follicle count was 30 which she said was good.

Obviously actually getting pregnant doesn't seem to be a problem for us right now so I'm not expecting anything to show up from these initial tests (hopefully!!) but looking forward to meeting the consultant in a couple of weeks to discuss next steps for testing specifically around the chemicals.

Hey @charlzzglad your appointment went well, was that a private appt?

I’m 5dpo today and had the weirdest cramps this eve, it’s almost like ovulation pains but already had those 5dpo and my opks are negative today. Not sure what that’s about, hopefully implantation?!

@Panda34 implantation starts earliest at 6DPO. I’ve had those before and it was basically just the side I ovulated from feeling a bit tender. Sometimes it last a few days after the egg has been released

@Marvelftwyeah it wasn’t ovulation pains as already had what you describe when I ovulated. Sure prob was a bit early for implantation but can hope..

@Panda34 Sorry probably not explaining it well. I’ve found that sometimes I still get aches from the side I’ve ovulated from a few days after I’ve ovulated. Like post pains

@Panda34 yes it was private, my NHS referral got rejected as they were only chemicals, not "proper" miscarriages. Apparently 4 in 9 months isn't anything to worry about or look into!!

I don't think I've ever had implantation pains but I know people do get them! I always get weird twinges post ovulation though from the corpus luteum cysts left behind.

Negative for me today at 12dpo so I'm out for this cycle (hopefully won't have another situation like last month where I get a late positive at 15dpo that ends in a chemical again!!).

Next cycle will officially be one year of trying, not a milestone I ever thought I would hit!

@charlzzthats terrible of the nhs isn’t it :( hope the private clinic will find some answers for you

im 10dpo today and bfn, so think I’m out too! Can’t have been implantation cramps! I’ve never had before either but was clutching at straws!

finding it weird I haven’t had even a hint of a line since my last miscarriage in June but before that seemed to have faint lines nearly every month 🤔

@Panda34 definitely don't count yourself out until 12dpo, you could have implanted today!!

I know what you mean, you don't want another chemical but getting no lines at all is awful too!

@charlzzill try and stay optimistic, I’ve always had a bfp at 10dpo though when I’ve had one, we will see!

Yeah exactly, crap either way I guess!! Came up on my Timehop my first faint bfp from this time last year so been a year for us as well, rubbish!

@charlzz sorry to hear their response, that’s so rubbish!!

I’ve been quiet for a while, trying not to think tooo much about TTC. But just finished cycle 3 of letrozole, went up a dose and my progesterone looks great but still BFN, period just starting tonight. Feel like I’m burnt out from caring and both care and don’t care? So hard! Doctor wants me to do another few rounds at this dose seeing as it works. Really hoped I’d be pregnant by Xmas but highly doubt it now, sadly

I know exactly how you feel about caring and not caring. I think it's your brain protecting your heart.

It's so hard to feel optimistic when you keep getting negatives, BUT that is great news that your progesterone is looking good! Have they discussed what next steps will be and the timeline you're looking at?

AF showed up for me today. Have my follow-up consultation from the private fertility clinic tests on Tuesday so I'm hoping we get some direction then! I have been spotting consistently for 3 or 4 days before my period for months now so even though my progesterone looked ok when I tested it privately I'm wondering if I could do with some support there too.

How did your appointment go @charlzz

@Iris2024 ahh thank you so much for checking in!

So the appointment went ok. My tests were fine, AMH and follicle count were good (21.9, and 30 follicles). My husbands tests were ok except he was below average for morphology (a 3 when they want 4 or 5 i believe).

She has done me a prescription for progesterone however she said to only take it from a positive test, NOT from 3dpo. I'm a little concerned about that because I worry my issue is implantation, so progesterone before that stage would probably be helpful.

Next steps will be a sperm DNA fragmentation test for my husband which we will do as soon as possible. Then some blood tests for me (I can't remember them all, but know they included diabetes, thyroid, and clotting). They can only be done 12 weeks after a positive pregnancy test, so we won't be able to do those until end of January following my last chemical which is frustrating - but I understand why!

All in all it was a positive appointment, so I'm really glad we did it. The doctor was really nice and knowledgeable.

Another bit of news is I've had a random gynaecology appointment through on the NHS, which I can only assume is from the recurrent miscarriage referral. So even though the clinic wouldn't see me, they've obviously referred me to gynaecology so that's something I guess! That appointment is end of December.

How are you doing? 🥰

That all sounds super positive @charlzz. some really good numbers for you and your husband. I really feel it will just be a matter of time for you. It’s just so cruel what you have to go through first.

Thanks @charlzz , you’re so right!
I’m definitely finding the run up to Xmas hard, just trying to plod on!

so they said now I’m on the right dose to do another 6 cycles. I feel like this is too long for me, I’ve got a review in February so if no luck by then I’m going ask what other options are. I assume as it’s nhs it’ll be on to IVF. I honestly feel like I’d rather just do IVF at this point, but maybe the letrozole will be enough. I know it can still take a few cycles even when the dose is right. I’m thinking we should do more private tests whilst doing letrozole but hard to decide which to prioritise

This sounds great! Sorry if I missed it, but is this nhs or private? We’re looking at DNA frag. My DH also has lowish morphology but everything else ok.

@Muddysocks1 this appointment was private so it all gets very expensive very quickly. I have had an NHS gynaecology appointment come through, but after being told I wouldn't qualify for the recurrent miscarriage clinic I've no idea what they will and won't do for us there, so I think we will crack on with getting the dna frag test done privately and then wait to see what they say at the appointment.

I know exactly what you mean, when you feel like IVF is inevitable it's like why waste any time!!

That sounds like a really good plan!
are you doing the dna frag for any particular reason or just as a sensible next step? I was reading about some risk factors/indicators and think my DH may have some, although not sure I’ve convinced him it’s worth checking yet! I’ve been listening to the TestHim podcast (pretty sure it’s designed for men but they said most listeners are women who then report back to their male partners 🤣)

@Muddysocks1 a couple of reasons tbh. She said the highest priority was my blood tests, and then after that if nothing came up from those then the next steps would be the dna fragmentation (kind of they were the most likely reasons in order that could cause recurrent losses). However, because we can't do my bloods until 12 weeks after a pregnancy we decided we may as well get the ball rolling!! His morphology was slightly low which i think suggests there could be something worth looking at more closely. And then lastly, my husband doesn't drink often, but when he does he absolutely binge drinks like a teenager going clubbing for the first time, so I figured that was another reason to investigate more haha. 😂

Oooh I'm going to listen to that podcast, thank you!!

What CD are you now? I'm CD8 so I'm getting ready for another cycle of SMEP which is exhausting but seems to be working pretty well for actually getting us pregnant (getting a sticky pregnancy is another issue unfortunately!).

This all sounds really positive and must be such a relief to be a step closer to getting answers. Good news my end that I finally got peak this week 3 months after the chemical. My cycles went crazy and was worried I wouldn’t ovulate again or get a normal cycle. This one was like clockwork though so I’m happy. I’m currently 8DPO and had lightening strike type shooting pains yesterday. Creamy CM. Trying not to get my hopes up but it’s so hard. We are away on Monday to a cabin and that’s when AF is due the end of that week.

Has your husband been drinking within the last three months then? As alcohol like that would definitely cause fragmentation I would have thought. I’m pretty sure it was only once the hot baths and energy drinks were out of my partner’s system that we finally got a sticky one.

🤣at the drinking part, I can just imagine!!

that all makes sense and seems sensible!

im CD10 now, usually ovulate CD13 although haven’t had any EWCM this month, so not sure if I’ll ovulate later or just not getting much CM 🙈
I’m suggesting we try home insemination alongside normal sex to try and max our chances - as the pressure has definitely got to us and I worry we’re not having enough sex!

Hi ladies, hope it's ok if I join. @EmPeEf so good to see you are doing well, not sure if you remember but we were in the same May/June thread when we both had chemicals. I had a second one in October as well. I'm about to ovulate now and so terrified of having a third... seeing that you are well into having a healthy pregnancy is so inspiring.

I have PCOS so I ovulate random times, though last few years it's gotten more predictable. It's usually around day 18-20. I'm currently CD 27 and thought I've missed my chance as I got no positive OPK, hormones must be messed up after my chemical, but lo and behold today I've had almost a peak.

My fertility clinic also refused to give me progesterone, but the doctor I spoke to was the leading doctor in the recurrent miscarriage clinic in NHS for 30 years. He said progesterone only makes a difference if you're above a certain age, and if you are already past the 5 week mark (and start bleeding around 8 weeks, when you'd see a heartbeat). He was very reassuring that my tests seem okay and it could just be luck, all he recommended was doing a blood test for blood clotting. It takes a while for results to come back so we are waiting for that.

Sending baby dust to everyone

I remember. I’m so sorry you’ve been through it again. It’s such a confusing type of heartbreak. Almost one of those “you’re a woman; just get on with it” moments. But I hope you’ve been really kind to yourself x

I think I was in a daze at my third one more than anything. It changed even more from being about seeing a positive test to seeing progression. But now in hindsight, I am so happy that my body knew what it was doing and refused to incubate an embryo that would have had problems. Definitely a luxury at this point I know, but it’s the smallest of silver linings.

I’ll share a small update, especially for the older ladies like myself (41 in January). I’m 15+1 with a due date of 27th of May. Going by conception dates that’s a full week before we even had sex 😅 so dates definitely aren’t everything. This one is just a fast grower.

I had my 12 week scan early last week when they thought I’d be 13+4 and just scraped through measuring 13+6! And the baby was extremely lazy and obstinate! Refused to move from lying face down on the placenta with its little feet tucked up all comfy, didn’t matter how much I wriggled or walked or jumped about.
Got a good NT measurement of 1.8mm though, and I just had my blood test results through yesterday. A standard 1 in 5000 for Edward’s and Patau’s, and 1 in 350 for Down’s Syndrome which is around that of a 35 year old. So absolutely, definitely do not give up on your bodies just because of “statistics”. Praying for you all.

I know there’s still a ways to go with the anomaly scan and everything, but for now I’m feeling so very lucky. Just waiting to feel movement now!

@EmPeEf I’m so glad! Your story gives us hope!

what have been your symptoms while pregnant? And did you notice anything different compared to the chemicals and this pregnancy which stuck? Like maybe quicker implantation or other things you did differently