Semen Analysis - any ideas?

[pinkmook]

Hi everyone, managed for the first time to get somewhere with our doctor yesterday! He let us have a photocopy of DH's semen analysis (he had a vasectomy reversal last July and we were told he had about a 40% chance of fathering again which is the lower end of the success level of such operations)

The results dont look great and have spent all night stressing over it so.....can anyone with any experience or knowledge help me and tell me if its possible to conceive naturally with these numbers:

Motility = 20%
count= 11.3 million/ml
morphology = 8.9% normal.

I understand that fertile sperm should be more than 50% motile, count greater than 20.0 x10^6/ml and 15% or more normal motility

So please if someone could tell me can we conceive with these low numbers??

yours not very hopefully

PM

Bump

Also does anyone know how much effect the time elapsed from producing the sample to the lab receiving it has??

Clutching at straws here I know but it took us an hour to get from home to the path lab at the hosp - could that have much of an effect?

Hello Pinkmook

I didn't want your post to go un-answered but it's really up to your doctor to explain what these mean.

From what i understand anything under 20million is considered low and they generally like to see 30% normal with 60% motility. So, roughly, your husband's levels are half what doctors like to see.

however it does only take one - and people do get PG with low counts. Zinc is said to hugely improve sperm quality (I don't think it's possible to increase nunmbers)

p.s - I'm sure i've read that sperm counts can increase for anyting up to a year following reversal so your husband's count could still increase.

Thanks Nancy66 - the doctor told us the sperm test results were fine, normal!! I knew they couldn't be as the after the vasectomy reversal we were told there was lots of scarring etc and one side had to be attached directly to the testicle rather than tube to tube as it was very badly damaged.

we went in and asked if we could actually have the printout and after some umming and ahhing they let us have it.

so I cant get my doctor to explain it as he clearly hasn't a clue (despite the fact that on the prinout it states the WHO guidelines for what is considered normal!!!)

We knew it would be low but I think I hoped it would be nearer to normal IYSWIM.

I wonder if the time elapsed could make that much difference to motility? I guess it wouldn't effect morphology or probably even count but maybe they would have died/stopped swimming after 1 hour? straws to grasp at anyone?

Hi pinkmook - why don't you get the tests done again privately? Or could you request a second test on the NHS and this time get your husband to do the test there? when my husband had sperm tests he always produced the sample on site and the time the sample was produced and then tested was written on the top of the results sheet, there was about a 20 mins time gap. Or maybe ask to see a different GP?

Thanks helenlouisey i think we will do that actually. We are going to a GYne app for me beggining investigations into our FTC on 27th may so I may ask then.

I have been through this recently for my DH's (naturally, i.e. not after a vasectomy reversal) poor sperm count. Our GP was also useless at interpreting results, which look worse then your DH's.

When my DH has been tested he always produces his sample on site at the hospital. No dashing to hospital, so it might be worth asking whether that is a possibility.

I believe that you should never rely on a single sperm test to give you the full picture, the results always differ and your DH should be tested again in a few weeks and the results compared and then possibly again. Ask your GP for another test and, if poorer, a referral to a urologist if the results look significantly below WHO guidelines again. We have been referred to a fertility unit where they are conducting further, more detailed sperm tests - I believe that the GP testst are only the initial indicator and consultants do a more detailed test under better conditions.

I understand that sperm should be tested within minutes for the best view and do deteriorate when out of the body, so if it is over an hour, that can affect the results.

I think any doctor or friend will tell you that it only takes one, which is true, but not terribly helpful. I don't think many doctors would tell you or even hazzard a guess on %liklihood of conception using one set of results.

GryffinGirl - thanks for your very reassuring post, I really do appreciate people taking the time to talk me down IYGWIM!

I find myself spinning off into huge anxiety and really need some sensible calm info/advice sometimes!

GryffinGirl - are you still trying TTC or have you had success yet?

I've not had experience with vasectomy reversal, but DH had his sperm checked a few years ago when we were FTC. He was basically told that his sperm was so poor that the chances of conception were almost nil. I asked what treatment there was, and was told that there were 'a few things we could try, but none of them very effective'.

After a great deal of soul searching I decided it was unfair to put DH through any pointless treatment and chose to move on with my childless life. Two years later I found out that I was pg, and now have a healthy son. Not only that, but of the only 2 occasions subsequently that we've had unprotected sex - I conceived both times! (Went on to have have 2 MC, but that's irrelevant).

So in summary, as other posters have said, the results from a single check really shouldn't be used in isolation. Don't give up - honestly, it's still quite possible that you'll conceive!

Gumbo - thanks, I love these types of success stories!

pinkmook - we are still TTC naturally. It has been approx 18 months for us. Neither of us have DC's or any other "evidence" we can conceive (i.e. previous pregnancies with other partners or miscarriages)

We are also about 3/4 of the way through our initial NHS tests and consultations and on the road to possible fertility treatment. I have the joy of going through them too, despite having clockwork cycles and no obvious problems. So far I have "passed" with flying colours!

DH's sperm test results 2nd time round were improved (from a very poor start!) but still way too low and he has "impaired fertility". He is having a third, very detailed test, this week. He has also had blood tests for testosterone and other hormone levels and a physical examination.

There is no apparent explanation of my DH's condition from what we know so far, so we are in different situations to you because a vasectomy removal is a physical indicator as to why your DH's sperm test was "sub-optimal". However, i think lifestyle changes are a good thing too - can't go wrong. My DH has given up alcohol, cycling and baths, has switched to loose pants and is eating lots of organic fruit and veg and taking Man Vits. Luckily he doesn;t smoke which is apparently a huge factor in poor sperm. We'll see if there is an improvement!

Good luck with everything

Gumbo - your story is really great for keeping my hopes up of TTC naturally. I joke that my DH's swmmer need zimmers!

pinkmook - i would also add that you can increase your chances of TTC naturally by knowing your own cycles intimately. By charting, temping or using ovulation predictor kits, you can pinpoint when you ovulate which will help to maximise the impact of any little swimmers and the correct timing for BD-ing .

Wow that must be very confusing not knowing why you haven't conceived yet. I wish you lots of luck in getting your pregnancy.

I have been obsessively charting, taking vits (and DH!) and have started eating a low GI diet (I think I may have PCOS) using OPK's even though if I have PCOS they wont work - but hey I'm desperate!

This month we decided to BD every other day from day 8.....getting a little beeeet sick of it now....and I'm only on day14

keep BDing ladies we can only hope.....

my dh count was terrible. they said it was a 'miracle' we had one child... I now have 2 more. We were recomended a herb by a herbalist called 'saw palmetto'. DH put a few drops in water and drank twice a day, and then I caught a few weeks later - on both subsequent occasions. Two more friends have tried it and also had success! You can get it from holland and barrett

wow crystaltips!! That is fantastic - right Holland and Barrett it is for me then!

oops not day 8... from day 10 and even so Im fed up of it

tastes vile though! I was referred for ivf, and caught before the appointment. I think dh took it for 2 months before we caught. With third child he took it 3 months before i would even try, but i caught first month - could't believe it! Two freiends have tried for years and caught same way! It is a herb that is used for men with prostate trouble, but that area is all connected, sort of !

Dh's sperm quality was so bad (he had mumps as a teenager) we were told we had no chance at all of conceiving naturally (much worse than your dh's - less than 1% forward motile -, though the count was high) . We accepted that and forgot about the issue. For unrelated reasons dh started to take zinc supplements and effectively cut out all alcohol.

Ds is now almost 17 months. We are hoping for another miracle, but not holding our breath.

wow ib thats amazing and fantastic! I guess zinc and saw palmetto it is for DH!

thank you for the saw palmetto tip crystaltips. I have said to DH and he's off to H&B in his lunch hour to get some .

My dad has prostate cancer, so I was aware of the benefits of saw palmetto for helping that condition, but I hadn't realised the fertility benefits it could bring.

Hi crystaltips - v. interesting post about 'saw palmetto', how many mg was your DH on?

I can't remember, I'm sorry. 4 drips in glass of water? twice a day - i'm sure it was no more than that.....
Please let me know how you get on..

just got my saw palmetto - wish us luck!

Good luck

Out of curiousity, how much mg did you buy?

I'm hoping to get some for my dh.