ARGC

[R55]

Hello All

Im 40 and have been TTC for about 9 months now. I’m considering IVF with ARGC and wondered if anyone could shed any light on how they are and any recent pricing info? Additionally how long it took to get an appointment/ treatment? I heard there’s a waitlist?
Thsnks x

I am with them right now. If you need any advice feel free to PM me. I assume you have by now made a decision regarding them. Sorry I only saw this.

How did you both find ARGC?

Hello, I’m starting my stimulation treatment in november. My observation month with some blood tests and scan went fine. I was super impressed with them and really feel that they really investigate everything. Just keeping everything crossed for a positive outcome xx

Hello, has anyone had any experience with ARGC and CRGH? I have a history of 6 recurrent miscarriages and these two clinics seem to have the best success rates but I am unsure which to go for, any advice welcome, thank you

Following with interest.

I have experienced both ARGC and CRGH. It depends what you are looking for. CRGH is better for being organised and having spaced out appointments. ARGC needs a lot of committing to with daily appointments and daily monitoring and directions. It feels a bit more haphazard but is good. I liked both of them but on balance ARGC feels slightly more reassuring but is very intense. Happy to answer any questions you have.

Thank you @Sarahk20000. when I look at the success rates overall they seem to be on par, one seems better at PGS and the other with fresh transfers I think.
Can I ask, did you go with CRGH first and then ARGC?
I agree with you that I think having the regular monitoring is more reassuring and that’s why I’m a bit unsure with CRGH. I have already had 2 consultations with CRGH, I fell pregnant the day after my first consultation but it resulted in a biochemical pregnancy.
I am about to turn 40 and I’ve been having miscarriages since I was 37. No identified cause, all my tests have been normal, and same for my husband he’s waiting on the DNA fragmentation results. My last AMH in July was 4.5 down from 7.5 Nov 2021. The recommendation has been that I try TSI+ letrozole first before IVF, the doctor told me that with my low AMH there is no more chance of IVF being successful than spontaneous conception as I am seek to be super fertile, just can’t maintain a pregnancy.
I was v disappointed to hear this as I had my heart set on the IVF as feel it’s the last resort now I’ve been trying naturally for 3 years always with the same result.
I feel like I can’t keep going through these miscarriages (3 this year). I was hoping to do batching +PGS/PGT-A and that would help as the miscarriages I’ve been told are likely due to chromosomal abnormalities.
I am worried as aside from the DNA fragmentation and AMH I’ve not had any other tests at CRGH (AFC, hormone profile etc) and with each miscarriage I’m getting older so I’m aware that my chances are getting slimmer with each month.
That’s why I then considered ARGC, but they seem to have a month waiting list to be seen and then there is a month of monitoring etc so I feel it’s just delaying things more and I really don’t know what the right thing to do. My doctor at CRGH has been v. caring but didn’t seem v confident about IVF which has made me v nervous and lose hope that my AMH is low and I won’t be successful. So I was thinking maybe a second opinion at ARGC would help, but the waiting time is so long, any advice?

I think the issue with ARGC is that even if you get into their system, they will want to do immune testing and then give Humira usually which sets a person back 6 weeks too. But putting aside waiting times, my reason for not going with ARGC first was that they don’t routinely PGTa tests and prefer doing fresh transfers following egg collections. I wanted to transfer PGTA tested embryos (albeit I still ended up with a miscarriage). I found the batching really hard work in CRGH but it did result in PGTA tested blastocysts - unfortunately for me none of the 3 resulted in a live birth. I think in your case chromosome abnormalities may well be playing a part at your age so a tested blastocyst is a better idea. ARGc can be convinced of this but they don’t like to routinely do it. Are CRGh not allowing you to batch blastocysts? I would form blastocysts in CRGH test them and then transfer them over to ARGC for transfers (this then takes away the time delay factor too). I switched to ARGc, they preferred me to do a fresh round but I opted for freezing and testing with them too and didn’t get any normal tested blastocysts unfortunately. I switched to donor eggs as an now 42 and will see if any better luck with that.

I am surprised your doctor isn’t at all confident about ivf, your AMH isn’t the lowest you could still get a few eggs but yes it could be a costly pursuit if small number of eggs and not resulting in PGTA normals but it’s worth a shot.

Why not maybe do one batching round with CRGH whilst waiting to be seen by ARGC and then see what the consultant there says. ARGC standard protocols is full on meds on the highest dosages (your FSH has to lower than 12 otherwise they only do natural cycles with minimum meds). Then they transfer embryos on day 3 many times when numbers low and then pot lock on weather any normals. It will be the same most probably as your natural trying albeit hopefully higher numbers of embryos and chances. Only 2 things that would give you something different from trying naturally would be PGTA testing and also if immunes are at play in the miscarriages. Which both Argc and Crgh offer. So you can pick either. I don’t think there is much between them. On balance my egg and embryo conversion results were better with CRGH but I was a year younger. I just prefer ARGC due to the monitoring and daily interactions and to be honest CRGH didn’t have donor eggs on offer yet (still on their waiting list). My original reason to move to ARGC was simply because I had failed with 3 normal tested embryos and thought why don’t I try a different clinic.

@Sarahk20000 thank you so much this is so helpful!! Thank you for sharing your story, and I’m sorry for your losses :(
You hit the nail on the head with everything you have said- I initially chose CRGH as they seem to be the experts at PGS/PGT-A and I feel with my history that is what I need. But then when my consultant said I should try letrozole/ OI first and that IVF may not work for me I lost my confidence in them a bit.
I also got worried as I said l, they’ve not done any tests at all aside from my husbands sperm analysis and DNA frag.
But then as I read more about ARGC they seem to really push the immunes and I’m just not convinced about it…the main appealing thing is that they monitor so intensely, which I think is a good thing. But I am concerned they’d just do the fresh embryo transfers without PGS and I’d end up with more miscarriages…
I had one cycle of IVF last January at Hammersmith, fresh embryo transfer with 2 embryos, I got pregnant but no fetal pole on scanning. Then got pregnant twice again, but both miscarriages. My last chromosomal analysis on the pregnancy contents came back with a chromosome abnormality which they think was spontaneous.
I am concerned CRGH don’t do enough monitoring, it makes me worried that if they aren’t monitoring things daily then how do they know if you’re in the right dose etc.
I initially decided to go straight ahead with IVF (embryo batching and PGS) despite the doctor saying I should try letrozole first, but after a couple of days thinking about it I’ve decided to try the letrozole and TSI for at least 2 rounds which sets me back a couple of months by which time I will be 40, but I guess no harm in trying…just hard to keep going through miscarriages again and again.
I really hope things work out with the donor eggs, one of my friends went through ivf for years and decided on donor eggs and she has just a
had her second beautiful baby boy :)

@Sarahk20000 can I ask why you found the batching hard work at CRGH? Did you go in for regular scans and bloods whilst on stims with CRGH?
Did they offer duo-stim? I’ve read the evidence and although it doesn’t result in better outcomes in regards to live birth rates, it does reduce the time for batching which is a positive

I really appreciate this thread and am in a similar position, so wondered if anyone might be able to advise!!

We had an NHS round last year which didn't feel very specific to our case. We had 2 failed FETs, I was 39 at the time with endometriosis. Looking back there were various elements to our treatment that I don't think were right for us. Long story short we're now between CRGH and ARGC (and I just turned 40, yay!) but I had consultations with them both today and they had quite opposing views on what to do:

ARGC -
Lots of tests esp. immunes
Fresh multiple transfer (if we had any/enough embryos - freeze any left over)
Opposed to FET in the first instance
Quite opposed to PGT-A testing in case of damage with our history of not great embryos

CRGH -
Not as much testing as they thought it was unlikely to be necessary in my case
Most likely FETso that:

• The embryos could be PGT-A tested to access embryo quality
• To have short down regulation before transfer as there was some concerns I could over-respond so diminishing risk of OHSS

Possibility of a fresh transfer followed by FET if there were enough/suitable embryos (which I don't take for granted after previous results) dependant on worries over OHSS and any endo implications.

I'm just really confused because ultimately we are choosing between 2 valid but opposing medical opinions. The thought of ARGC is appealing because FET drags on so long and maybe there 's slightly better odds fresh (although not necessarily with my history) but I did have some complications in our first round so I understand CRGH's caution. Equally I wouldn't want to get down the line with ARGC and have to transfer untested frozen embryos as it's too painful (we knew our last transfer was a really bad quality blast and it was soul-destroying spending the best part of 3 months in that case what with a really long down regulation, transfer and waiting when I knew all along it was very unlikely to work). I felt like we discussed things in more detail with CRGH and but then I know at ARGC there would be more monitoring. I gather that CRGH will be more of a standard process/maybe less personal but then the process suggested by ARGC felt more like what they suggest for everyone... so I'm confused.

Sorry this is so long, would love to hear any thoughts especially if anyone's been through something similar- it's really generous of people to share! I read quite a scathing post somewhere about ARGC and it almost made me laugh- most of the 'complaints' were just the general hideousness of IVF, so good to talk here with people that have been through it!💪😘

@Sarahk20000 @stilltrying2022 @R55 @Lils1880 ...just realised I should have tagged some people, I'm new here!!😂🙄

This is so difficult. I had a similar dilemma when I turned 40. I had to choose between CRGH and ARGC and at the time I went with CRGH. My reason was that I didn’t want to put untested embryos in at 40. I did batching and out of 3 rounds got 7 blastocysts and 3 of those tested PGTA normal. Unfortunately for me all 3 FETs failed, 2 failed to implant and 1 miscarriage. I subsequently went to ARGC but at this point I was 42 (that’s how long the batching and transfers took). I still didn’t want fresh transfers and am glad I didn’t because I tested my embryos and both were abnormal in the ARGc round. I have now moved to donor eggs and decided to stick to ARGC for any transfer of blastocysts formed. But of the two clinics it’s a hard choice. You could do the batching with CRGH so you quickly get some PGTA normals and let them do one transfer. If it doesn’t work, move your embryos to ARGC. aRGC monitoring is like no other. It’s much better in that. I prefer it as a clinic on balance just because I feel communication is better and the daily monitoring makes me feel assured. But in reality CRGH lab etc seem superior. Sorry I am sure I am not helping. ARGC will test if you push for it / but their success is with fresh transfers. If you can face the risk of fresh transfers then they are better. Such a hard choice and I don’t know which is right but as an experience I am preferring ARGC.

@Sarahk20000 Thank you so much for taking the time to write this, it's such a crazy experience and it's so brilliant to be able to talk to people in the same boat.
I asked CRGH about batching but they felt that that was less of a priority at this point as they think I probably have reasonable reserves- although quality is a whole different issue. So I'm wondering (if finances allow which is a very big 'if') we do a round with CRGH and see what we get with PGTA/FET then if that doesn't work to try with ARGC with the 'throw the kitchen sink at it' mentality. Then again I don't want to treat CRGH as a stop off on the way to going to ARGC and if I'm doing fresh and untested that should probably be sooner rather than later. I felt that the specialist I spoke to at CRGH had more understanding of endo and it's implications so I think I am probably leaning that way but as you say after a bumpy ride at my last clinic (literally had an egg collection that no one was billed for because it went so unexpectedly) I really like the thought of the monitoring at ARGC (and I guess feel more excited by a clinic that's a bit different!). I wonder how hard it is to change during treatment - eg get PGTA tested embryos, hopefully, at CRGH and transfer to ARGC, I guess as you plan and pay as you go along there's no reason why you can't change? I just fear the added admin as communication seems to be challenging with all clinics to a degree....

Trying to decide in the next week so I can start on my next cycle, I kind of wish you could speak to someone not affiliated to a clinic, I guess that's what the HFEA advice is for but then they seem to be really conservative and maybe behind with what's at the forefront of techniques and research etc.

Sorry for rambling! Thanks again for all your replies on this thread, it really is helpful especially as I think everyone, myself included, is inclined to keep themselves to themselves a bit when you're having treatment etc!

@NilesandFrasier I can totally relate to what you are going through and your predicament…I’m turning 40 in a month and couldn’t decide between CRGH and ARGC either. I’ve decided to stick with CRGH for now, mainly because their HFEA success rates with PGS are better, and if I do IVF I would rather have the embryos tested given my history if RPL.
It is a difficult one, as each of the clinics use different approaches and are better at one or the other (PGS+FET or fresh transfers +- immunes).

I won’t go through my story again, but I found CRGH very good in that the nurses always got back to me v quickly whenever I had a question and my consultant called us even though we didn’t have a consultation booked to go through test results and she said we can drop her an email if we have any questions.

Although I was also more inclined initially to go for ARGC because of the intensive monitoring, when I looked at the success rates to me it looks like that is better for fresh transfers (hence the intense monitoring), so I am going to trust the process that even without the heavy monitoring CRGH still have better success rates with PGS.
Our tests so far have been normal, my AMH went up in December from 4.5 in July to 6.1, and my husbands DNA frag was normal. Our consultant again informed us that success rates for us would not necessarily be better with IVF and so we are trying the OI+TSI first, which doesn’t start till the end of the month…feels like a lifetime away. But if that doesn’t work will then go for IVF batching +PGS…Trying to be patient but it’s very very difficult after 3 years of going through this and loss after loss…just feels like time goes so slowly waiting for the next opportunity 😓
I also joined the ARGC support group on fb where people talk about their experiences, that also helped (kind of), although everyone has a different experience so it’s difficult to know really which is better for you personally if you know what I mean. But that could be another avenue to help be better informed when deciding.
Sorry for jabbering on….I completely agree in that I have been more and more inclined to keep to myself as I don’t really like talking about it with others, I find it quite hard and very sad, and it’s all so unknown…but then it’s difficult isn’t it as people then wonder why they don’t see you anymore…anyway. I hope this is helpful, sorry if it’s stuff you know or not that informative, but like you say it’s helpful to chat with others in the same boat when it’s such a difficult and sad situation 😞

@stilltrying2022 Thanks so much for your message, it's so good to hear from other people going through it (whilst obviously wishing none of us was going through it). I really appreciate hearing your opinion, and @Sarahk20000 's. I find it reassuring that, like me, you both felt that it's not a clear choice. Whenever I have researched clinics and approaches I have tended to steer away from very strong views as there's so much luck involved and people are, understandably, influenced by their outcome. I think logic tells me that CRGH is the better option now, it's just so weird that I have this slight voice in my head saying 'fortune favours the brave' and that I should go to ARGC, but not really based on anything other than a kind of momentum from all the positive things I've heard. It's such a perfect storm of anxiety with the decision making as it all feels so against the clock!
I want to clarify a few things with CRGH and have a call booked with ARGC next week so I guess that will decide it. It's good to hear you've been able to communicate easily with CRGH. I chose to speak to the Doctor that I felt had then most Endometriosis experience, I know we won't see him that much but I understand he'll be the person deciding on our treatment.
As for opening up to others I know there's probably 100's of threads on here devoted to it, but I have retreated so much. I have gradually told most people I know what we've been going through over the last few years but as we all know you just don't understand if you haven't gone through it. I've had some really difficult experiences with friends pregnancy announcements, I am now constantly paranoid that I am about to have someone's pregnancy launched at me! That said gradually seeing more people recently has helped me be a bit less 'tunnel vision' about things.
I really hope your journeys are fruitful and as smooth as possible. I am trying to be positive but I think the one thing I can take from all this is that even if I don't get the result I want I can feel I did everything in my power to try- which is why I'm really grateful for your replies. Also will update if I have any revelations on clinics (Arg and Carg as I have taken to calling them!) xx

@NilesandFrasier i hope your CRGH journey is a successful one. If you get a good number of PGTA normal blastocysts you can always switch to ARGC for a FeT if for any reason CRGH isn’t working out for you. The ArGC support group is good on Facebook but experiences are so varied as you say. One thing I will say is that so check your immunes upfront if you have had a number of losses. cRGh also treat immunes. Happy to be of any help. With a few years at CRGh and now at ARGc since July last year I have covered both clinics in detail!

Hi all,

I’m just wondering how you all got on? I am currently speaking to crgh and argc after a failed round at another clinic (abc). I think I’m leaning towards crgh (the costs of Argc terrify me!). I just wanted to see what everyone else’s experience was?

@R55 @NilesandFrasier @stilltrying2022 @Sarahk20000

thanks!

I went to ARGC which resulted in two embryos transferred and the birth of my DC many years ago after miscarriage and unexplained infertility. I did the immune sand had transfusions well into my 6 th month although looking back in not sure whether they were of use that long into the pregnancy but it is worth thinking about the ongoing costs ( travel and time off work) as it was intense.

Hello, my transfer in december unfortunately didn’t work out and was negative when I had my pregnancy blood test. I was made redundant at the same time so I’ve not been able to start up any more treatment/another round until I get a new job and the job market is bleak right now. I’m so frustrated daily that I can’t start straight away as I need an income financially for our mortgage so can’t risk starting treatment without getting a job first.
I did wonder whether there was much price difference going anywhere else in central london other than ARGC but I’m a bit clueless as to where else is good, if anyone has any suggestions. I think ARGC totally cost about 17k.
On Dr Sapnas request in my follow up call, I had a pelvic ultrasound to check my endo and they confirmed it was stage 2 and would be too risky for my egg reserve to operate as the main cyst is 4.7mm and on my ovary. He said I had a 3% chance of ever conceiving naturally and a 30% chance through IVF so not great results.
So I’m basically praying for a miracle ( and a job offer) over here 😖 x

Hey all,

Hope you're all ok, @R55 I am so sorry to hear all you've been through, it touches every part of your life doesn’t it? I really hope something gives soon so you can move on and that you have understanding people around you.

@Ttc91 I'm with CRGH at the stims stage, so obviously not at the point where I know how it's going with 'results'. However so far in a practical sense it has been much better than my NHS/create round, that said (and I think this might be true everywhere) it's still quite a bewildering process I've listed some of the pro's and cons so far over my last clinic, but I also don't know if this is in part the difference between NHS/Private - technically I feel like it shouldn't make that much difference, but I think it possibly does in terms of exploring options and communication.

Pro's:
Doctor of my choice specialises in endo
Doctor has their own medical sec (not CRGH) who is great and I can contact very easily (WhatsApp etc) and has given me advice on smaller things, made appointments for me, helped me get medication quotes etc
Generally quite easy to contact CRGH (callback/portal are helpful too)
You don't pay at reception (at Create there were lots of people looking stressed in front of other people with credit cards)
Stims plan and medication was gone through very thoroughly with a nurse and all appointments booked at the start (subject to change/results etc) - before I felt it was a scary drip-feed of info and booking each appointment at the last one and only being told verbally about dosages etc.
Small thing - nurses do the scans and blood tests in the same room - I hated the way at Create you had to wait after your scan in the corridor for a bloodtest!

Cons (these are quite general to anywhere I think):
Occasionally is quite busy / bit of a wait
With extra tests etc it is expensive, I think all told for me it will probably be around £15,000 but there are so many variables it's hard to say
More of the costs were needed up front than I expected, perhaps only by a couple of weeks but that's been quite difficult
You don’t see your Doctor much (I think this is true everywhere) but up until this point that hasn’t been necessary and I know he’s the one making calls on dosages after bloodtests etc, also as I said I have very easy access to his secretary.

The main reason I went with CRGH at this point is because I felt that if it didn't work I would come away with better data and information for a possible final attempt. The main issue I think I have (from endo) is poor egg quality - ARGC said (basically) don't test embryos and do a fresh transfer because testing and freezing may damage them further (I think statistically this isn’t so major and freezing allows time for other medications etc for endo which can be positive, so this is very much a matter of opinion/weighing things up). CRGH said lets try and get lots of embryos, freeze and test them to see if they could successfully transfer instead of transferring embryos that will never work, so same problem, 2 completely different ways of looking at it. As I said I felt like CRGH just seemed a bit more rational, but I’m clearly not a Doctor and it’s still stressful wondering if that was the right decision.

I did paid consultations with both having already sent all my medical records from my previous attempts (this can take a while if you don't have them already) because it seemed like the only way to get a sense of their approaches. I like the idea of ARGC and throwing everything at it but I couldn’t quite come up with a reason to go with them over CRGH, so my rational head won out. If by some miracle we could afford to do it again if necessary I would be open to trying ARGC, I found them really communicative when we were talking to both.

I might be repeating myself a bit here (!) but that’s were I’m up to. Have you explored Access Fertility? I didn’t go down that route as I don’t think what they could offer would benefit me but it definitely could be good for some cases and you can go to CRGH through them.

I always write such long replies! Hope this helps.

Thank you @NilesandFrasier sending ❤️x

I’m so sorry @R55 , it’s so awful having negative results and is really so all consuming isn’t it. Hoping you’re able to start again soon.

Thanks so much @NilesandFrasier for all of the helpful info! I have just starting exploring access fertility as they do offer good value multi cycle packages. Was your £15000 for one round or multiple? Can I ask if you have any consultants you’d recommend? I have my initial consultation booked with dr seshadri. (I was also at create/abc previously and really hoping crgh will offer a more tailored approach!!)