IVFers thread

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Anyone fancy starting an ongoing thread for those who are having IVF/ are planning to try again via IVF soon?

Ds was conceived via IVF - he's now 2.6 and we're stepping back on the scary rollercoaster ride with a FET - I started taking the drugs yesterday!

[Onlyaphase]

MNPK, it is incredibly difficult to stay positive all the time. Sometimes I feel like your DH - we are all lucky to be living in a time when medicine allows treatment of our problems like this. But other times I just feel so resentful and cross and "why me" about the whole thing - like this week when most of my NCT group seem to be announcing or planning their second pregnancies, it can be so frustrating and agonising to hear them talk about this so casually.

TBH it probably is the drugs having this effect on you at the moment. I too feel incredibly down and tired all the time - combination of drugs, January blues, no sunshine, no money etc isn't the best thing in the world.

Also, is the negativity your way of protecting yourself if this cycle doesn't work out for you? You know, if you don't get excited about it and don't think it will work, then it won't matter so much if it doesn't work out?

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Totally Only aphase re your last paragraph - I finally worked this out last night when talking to dh after that I just am not letting myself be positive as I am concentrating on the day to day of this and not the potential outcome. It's easier that way.

I'm so upset by this big row we had.

I feel really sad right now and I know it's partly the hormones but I just want my dh of all people to be there for me and I don't feel like I can be open about how I feel now - like I have to pretend it's all a bed of roses and I am so delighted to be doing this. Yes I agree it is great that we have this option unlike women 30 years ago but well I won't go on.

My lovely ds gave me a cuddle and that made me feel a bit better this morning at least.

Last time I didn't find the treatment stressful at all so this is a bit of a surprise really.

[Sticki]

MNPK - 1 previous cycle resulting in DS (2.6), clinic UCH, currently doing FET,transfer expected mid Jan.

Coggy - 3 X clomid resulting in DS who was tragically stillborn, 4 IUIs, now 1st IVF - just has the letter W/B: 4th Feb for egg transfer (Haven't started any drugs yet - can that be right???!!!)

Onlyaphase - 1 previous cycle two years ago resulting in DD (14 months) currently downregging to start another IVF cycle. No dates yet but expect to have egg collection around end Jan. Clinic not that hopeful this time due to my age (38) and poorish response last time.

soosy (38) - 9 icsi cycles, 2 fet's, first resulting in pg mmc at 10 weeks, 3 iui's with donor sperm, 4ivf cycles with donor sperm , first resulting in darling life saver ds (2.11) currently waiting to start 5th ivf cycle, which should start end next week, beginning week after. All at the Chelsea & Westminster.

Sticki (35) UCH. 3 IUI cycles and 2 IVF failures before getting pg naturally whilst waiting for IVF with PGS. Wonderful DD 2.5 (yes a lifesaver). Since another 2 years of trying, IUI and IVF with PGS. Next month starting GIFT or IUI. Likely I have a chromosomal problem with my eggs (ruled out all other things).

[Sticki]

PK - I find I cant find a balance of having hope that it might work and the alternative of not hoping too much in case it doesnt..... Its so natural to protect yourself, especially as treatment (and IF) is soo difficult emotionally.

From talking to my acupuncturist and Paul Serhal at UCH its really important to believe it will (or at least might) work. The only time I have managed to have complete positive thinking (apart from perhaps 1st cycle) was when I saw a hypnotherapist woman who was amazing and allowed me to stop the negativity for about 10 days of the 2WW. Thinking of going to see her again as even more negative now. I feel that in the scheme of a cycle another £60 to have hope is worth it. (Not sure where you are but hypno woman is in SW London if you want more info.)

Is there anyway you can find some time to do something fun with your DH? Cinema/meal out/walk in the park etc..... Treatment is really hard, and very hard on a relationship. Can you go and see a trashy movie for a couple of hours out?

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Thanks Sticki. Serhal is very positive isn't he. I know he's a bit eccentric but I like that!

I think the negativity is more about me getting bogged down about having to take the drugs and whingeing about getting fat and spotty from them etc. more than about specifically thinking the treatment won't work. I am reasonably positive on the latter but I don't really link the two things so I have detached the day to day drugs etc from the outcome.

Last time I had an interesting experience whilst having acupuncture. I had literally never imagined or visualised myself with a baby but during one of the first sessions I started doing this and not particularly intentionally - it was most strange but I started thinking of this baby and being with a baby. It was quite inspiring!

Still waiting for my period - it's supposed to start about a week after downregging but this is the 10th day. I really want it to turn up as worrying I haven't downregged properly - ironically next month of course I will really want it not to turn up!

[Sticki]

You guys are the only people I can ask for opinions on treatment options. I hope you dont mind me venting about something thats on my mind (long!)......

We are lined up for a GIFT IVF cycle to start down regging after my next period later this month. There is some empirical evidence that GIFT has a success rate of 40% after repeated failures vs 0% blastocyst IVF. This is because somehow doing a more natural treatment works better as the fallopian tubes do some kind of magic apparently and nurtures poor quality embryos that wouldnt survive in the lab. (GIFT is when they put the eggs and sperm back into the fallopian tubes by Lap directly after ET rather than culture embryos in lab.) Our problem is likely to be a chromosome issue with my eggs which means that only about 10% are potentially viable.

During our consultation Paul Serhal talked about IUI being also good in these scenarios because of the same 'more natural' reason. We were very negative about IUI because we have had 4 already with no success (and 5-6 good follicles each time) and he thinks you have to believe your treatment could work.

Anyway, whats going round my head is - was I wrong to dismiss IUI (although there isnt the empirical evidence)? IUI is much less invasive, doesnt need down regging and also needs less drugs.

I guess Im just dreading all the drugs, appointments etc and IUI would be a way of reducing it a bit. Another thought is that perhaps they would let me start down regging for the GIFT this month. That might help me to get on with it rather than feeling its hanging over me.

Thanks! This post (rant!) has helped me to understand my issue (ie chicken about the next cycle)...
PK - Thanks v much for starting this thread.

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Hmm this is tricky Sticki (bad rhyme there sorry!)

Have you thought of asking Mr Serhal which he would do if it were him quite bluntly?

Fundamentally of course you need to weigh up the estimated success rates and the amount of disruption/ drugs involved.

Is the rate he'd estimate for you for Iui much lower than that for the GIFT? And also how do you feel about several cycles of IUI again even if they don't involve drugs they could still be quite taxing emotionally?

Sorry don't think I've been much help - it's hard to know when it is so individual in terms of success rates isn't it.

[Onlyaphase]

Sticki - can totally see why you are leaning toward a more natural less drug based treatment. I agree with MNPF in that you need to think carefully about the differing chances of success with the different options you have.

Not sure how applicable this is to you, but what is your hormone profile like? Has anyone said anything about ovarian reserve at all? Just wondering whether if you feel time is running out, maybe go for the treatment with the best chance of success immediately? If you have lots of time left, may be you could be more relaxed about it.

Sorry if this wasn't helpful to you and good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[soosy]

Hi everyone,

Stiki, I should imagine that gift has a higher success rate as they can put back several mature eggs, whereas with iui the eggs cannot be seen before fertilisation. But like pk I would ask 'if I was your wife' question. It may not be a chromosomal thing, as we don't have that problem, infact apart from a male problem, they cannot see any reason why its not happening, since using donor sperm. 35 is considered quite young in treatment terms... Good Luck

Sorry to hear that you are feeling down pk - I always find that I swing from feeling fabulous to completely depressed when I do a cycle, and from what I understand it is completely normal. If you get to go for acupuncture tell them you are feeling down. I went for acupuncture after my Mum died and the first session was completely cathartic, I did have the cycle of ivf. iyswim.

Trying not to eat chocolate and finding it v hard, started raiding DS's christmas stash last night.... which is very mean... I will replace it.

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Thanks Soosy. Had a good chat with dh just now.
Fundamentally we decided we would treat this phase (ie. during treatment) as an extraordinary period and not make judgments about each other based on this.

Also told him he needs to make more of an effort to be supportive and we discussed specific ways of doing this.

In typical bloke style he said that he wouldn't want to be fussed over so assumed I wouldn't (or something like that).

Never mind Men are from Mars.....they're from a different bloody solar system

[soosy]

Oh pk the wonders of men! When all you want is a cup of tea and a good sob, with no more comment than 'yes darling I understand' and what do you get, you didn't want to be fussed over! pmsl

Still waiting for mine to cook me supper one night (We have been together for 14 + years and married for 10), so you can imagine how hungry I am supportive mine can be.

I do think that they don't know what to do at times like this because they don't have much facility for empathy, its a girl thing - which is why mn exsists. Glad to hear things are sort of better.

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Feeling a lot better today and dh is showing more interest in the treatment which is all I was really after I suppose.

Yep Soosy - I think mine cooked me dinner once about 12 years ago!!

Thanks for your support over the last few days all of you.

Off to the clinic tomorrow for day 2 scan to see whether I can start the oestrogen. Luckily AF arrived this morning - I was getting a bit worried I hadn't downregged properly as it was meant to be turning up on Saturday.

[Sticki]

Glad AF has arrived PK! Its weird actually wanting AF to come isnt it? Typically late when you need it to come to move on..... Hope injections not too bad. Remember someone else's advice to ice?

Thanks for all your posts about our treatment options. (Esp Soosy reminding me about mature eggs and FSH etc) Have spoken to Serhal and will go for GIFT. Also managed to convince them to start down regging on sunday. So off to the clinic tomorrow to pick up the drugs - might see you there PK!
Feeling much better about it now I have a plan and am not hanging around for another month waiting to start (Im not good at waiting). So EC mid feb by my calcs.

We moved into our house nearly 2 years ago and still my DH hasnt got a clue where things live in the kitchen...... his idea of cooking supper is ordering a curry.

I agree that men are from a different planet, esp where treatment is concerned. Also PSML at the 'dont want to be fussed over'!! Dh says he doesnt feel so involved in the treatment because he really doesnt have to do v much even though all of my time is spent living with side effects, trying to be hopeful, taking drugs, going to appointments, sorting out childcare for EC/ET, paying the bills and thinking about it. I get cross when I feel that Im doing it all alone (and he is always at work during the hard bits). But then we really need the money.....

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Sticki - were you there this morning or did you just speak to PS on the phone? I was there this am so won't be tomorrow. Great that you've resolved the issue of which type of treatment to go for.

Yes it was me who said to ice - it really made a difference last time. I'm not starting to inject for maybe 10 days still - quite a different protocol to the fresh cycle where I think you inject on day 1 iirc.

I worked out that if everything goes to plan our ET would be at the weekend so I need a plan for childcare for ds that can include weekends...not sure what that will be!

[soosy]

PK childcare, can't dh stay outside the treatment room with ds? Find out from the hospital if it is possible. What about a weekend with the grandparents? They need not know why.

Sticki glad to hear that you are on your way, waiting is definitely the worst part, the waiting before and afterwards I don't really mind the middle bit at least you feel like you are doing something.

The first injection is the worst isn't it I always give myself a bruise, then I get better at it. Had a pen last time and this which is a revelation. First time doing icsi I had powder & water to mix with big needles and then swapping them over god what a palaver. Still have bigger needles for cetrotide, but I do 6 or 7 of those.

I hopefully will start injecting next week, if everything goes to plan. Have a fabulous acupuncturist, who has banished my cough, which was the tail end of my cold. So I am hoping she will work similar magic during my cycle and after.

Night night x

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Hi
Soosy - totally agree the first injection is the worst and then it's not so bad after. I had to do all the mixing last time too - powder and liquid but apparently don't have to with the drugs this cycle for the FET. How does the pen thing actually work? Do you just press a button and the needle goes in and you don't have to see it happening?

I've been told by the clinic that although it's totally fine for children to be there at other times they shouldn't go for the ET...but maybe I can check. Also I really think dh wouldn't want to miss the transfer - he's so proud of the fact he saw ds on the screen when he was a few cells!

I wonder with an FET transfer whether they do them at the weekend anyway - I need to ask whether they do or perhaps they let you coast for a day or two? Anyone know what the norm is for Fet - they definitely do fresh transfers at weekends.

[Sticki]

PK - was at clinic today (Thursday) so we wouldnt have bumped into eachother.

Am now going through protocol and diary trying to work out dates and childcare etc. I havent asked clinic about bringing DD to appointments so I cant help on that one. In my experience you can be there a while at transfers because there is always some faff about your bladder being too full/not full enough/things in the wrong place! etc. However, at the weekends the clinic is much more relaxed.

Luckily with GIFT you dont have the transfer on a different day but DH will have to take time off as I will be a bit more sore than usual apparently and have to have a general anaesthetic.

Soosy - glad you have a fab acupuncturist. I love my sessions and find it makes a huge difference to how I feel. It is meant to make a positive impact on success too so Im hopeful but hasnt work magic so far! (Hope this is your cycle)I find it really interesting talking to my acup woman as she sees so many women doing treatment etc she has lots of interesting experience.

[soosy]

Af due tomorrow and I think on its way, I have been vile to DS this eve, he has been playing me up but instead of distracting him, which i know i should do, I just said no way too much (feel very guilty). and to top it all I have started defrosting the freezer, the sort of thing I only do just before my period. Cleaning the house is another favourite too.

Friday a Bad day for af to start as I have to ring the hospital and try and arrange an appointment for the same day as I will have to start injecting on day 3 (sun). Always impossible to get appointment same day, although in the old days someone would always see you.

[soosy]

sorry pk with a pen you have a very fine needle and all the drug is in the pen you just dial the dose, prime the pen, jab it in and push the end, it's all really quick, and you get much smaller bruises!

Sticki Glad to hear you have a general for GIFT. I sometimes wonder whether a general would be better for IVF as you would be totally relaxed

[Onlyaphase]

Soosy, good news about the pen for injections. Last time around I had this auto injector kit - loaded everything into the pen, pressed a button and the needle shot out into you all by itself - so no need to actually jab a needle into yourself. This time round things have moved on apparently (!) and we will be using the pen thing with the dial on it, but it does mean sticking a needle into yourself. DH can do that, gives him something to do.

Good luck with getting an appt Soosy - I hate it when little things like that are so difficult.

I have my dates now I think - EC on 6th Feb, ET on 8th. I had to pay the treatement and drugs costs today and phoned up DH to tell him how much I was paying, and he said that we didn't need to go ahead! I think he was joking, but he really should have learnt from last time that I Have No Sense Of Humour when downregging. Not even a little bit. Still, I am much better downregging on the pill than using Buserelin, haven't felt any urges to stab anyone yet.

[soosy]

Onlyaphase I know what you mean about the lack of humour, but it is disgusting the amount they charge for the drugs esp when you find out hospitals do deals with certain suppliers and your drug isn't one of those then you pay a huge amount. My drug bill this time was about £650 but the time before last it was over £900 as I was using a different brand of FSH.

Sorry about my little pre af rant, just cross about NHS and what they will and won't treat.

Downregging on the pill sounds rather nice, i can't believe you have your dates already, my treatments always seem to be in the lap of the gods and it's not until about five days before EC do I have any idea when its going to be! Much easier for child care your way.

Off to defrost freezer.... night night.

[coggy]

LOL at you two Sticki and PK...you'll have to wear little MN identifying badges if you ever go to the clinic on the same day!!

Soosy...hope you are feeling a little better today. X

Onlyaphase....looks like you and me will be very similar times. My EC is due on the 4th Feb although that is rather dependant on my final scan on the 1st...but if all goes to plan...that's the date!

Took my first progeserone pill this morning so now it's really really happening!!!
HURRAH!

[TheMNPeacekeepingForce]

Great that you've started Coggy - I think it makes it much more real when you take the first tablet!

Yes Sticki we'll have to have a code - if I sneeze three times or something that means it's me! Or someone with a bad cold...

Does anyone know, if you have a negative FET, how long do you have to wait before you can do another fresh cycle? I guess it must vary by clinic but I'd like an indication so that if this one doesn't work I can work out when we could start again.

If this cycle doesn't work we will do one fresh I'm pretty sure, and quite quickly after but then after that we might stop. For a while at least.

Lovely day today - hope everyone is doing something nice.

[soosy]

Hi pk I think you just have to have one period between having treatment, but you are not going to need it! Plus you may have more that one FET from your bumper crop! I think you and sticki should wear red roses in your lapel and carry furled umbrellas, you could of course speak in really bad eastern european accents.

Coggy, Glad to hear you have started too, you feel like something really positive is happening.

I have my first scan on Monday and if everything ok I start my FSH injections. Hooray, feeling much better since af arrived properly today, was a bit of an emotional wreck yesterday all stressed about treatment.

Had a lovely day wandering in Windsor Great Park, we are thinking of maybe moving to there.

Hope everyone else had a good day. Bath time for DS.

[Sticki]

Coggy - great you have started ..... roll on a positive result.

Impressed that you defrost the freezer and clean when you have pmt Soosy! I just want to lie on the sofa and eat choc (in between shouting at people). Hope AF turned up in order for you to get an appointment.

Pk - not sure about FET then fresh. But I wouldnt have thought you have to wait v long if you dont want to. I have found that although the clinic have 'rules' about having a break etc they dont seem to be set in stone and Ive been able to start new cycles quicker in the past. (Im very impatient!)

I start downregging tomorrow - primolut then the nasal spray next week. I know the lack of humour and other tasty symptoms will appear soon. Joy!

I got so cross yesterday that we have to do all this to get pg - for even the possibility of the amazing happening and we actually get a very elusive bfp. Everyone else I know seems to be able to get pg easy as pie with none of the drugs, cost, symptoms, worry etc. I cant help compare myself (silly I know, I should know better by now) with the other normal women who manage easily and just end up feeling crappy. But feeling fairly positive about the treatment - at least we are counting down to EC around 12 Feb and each appointment, tablet, spray or injection is constructive.