An OPK question and a question on a prolonged pre-ovulation phase

[greenbug]

I did OPKs up till day 19 - all negative, then I was so dijected i didn't try for couple of days. I tried on day 21 and it was positive, again on day 22 -same. What does this mean? am I still in for a good chance or I missed ovulation this month?

Also I read on the internet that eggs produced after day 14 are not of good quality so there is a risk of mc or birth complications? is a 35 day cicle considered as normal and healthy cicle? Is it just the 14 day after ovulation rule that one should consider to count healthy cicles or anything over the clasic 28 day cicle is of an inferior quality.
Please help!!! i had an mc earlier this year and i am trying to explain it to myself why it happened.

cheers
greenbug

greenbug...no! it is not true, eggs produced after day 14 are ok! every woam ov at different times.

The opk is dark when you have a rise in LH which means that you will ov 12-24 hrs after this....so you can have a dark line for 24hrs!

Hope this helps

havent used opks but have temped in the past
i have a 33-34 day cycle, ovulating around day 22....
the crucial part is the time between ovulation (day22 for me) and the arrival of af

the optimum length of that time span is 14 days....if it is 10 days or less, an fertilised egg cant implant 11-13 days is borderline.

i sometimes had an 11 day luteal phase (the time between ov and af) and took a while to get pregnant both times....

how long is your cycle?

and as far as I know, none of this has anything to do with miscarriage.....
good luck

thank you so much for your replies. it puts my mind at rest because my periods are as unpredictable as the weather, they vary greatly from any number between 28 and about 45, when the latter happens i just assume i missed ovulation completely. However, everytime i detect breast tendernes i know that in a couple of weeks my period would come. but the first phase is just agonising!!!

so why is it that doctors love the 28 cicle if most women don't adhere to it?

greenbug

A "normal" cycle is a cycle length of between 21 and 35 days or with a variation of less than 4 days from month to month.

OPK's are actually of not much if any use if your cycle is unpredictable. Also another problem with them is that women can have more than one rise in LH hormone (this is what these kits measure) every month. This is actually normal but some kits work on the assumption that women only have one rise in such levels.

so not much use for aiding the ones who truly need help.

Would this explain why when I tried the OPK today as well, the same time as yesterday and the day before and it was still showing a positive result. It's the Acon supposedly professional OPK kits.
So i went to boots and bought the clearblue digital ovulation kit. and there was no smiley face in the result to show LH surge.
So I don't know which one and what to believe?!?! Is one of them more sensitive than the other?

how can i establish some sort of signs when ovulation occurs ?

Meerkat, apart from ovulation what else can trigger a LH surge? and does this happen only with PCOS or with everybody?

Are basal thermomitor not efficient for PCOS either? how about saliva testers?

Many questions! please help

greenbug

Hi Greenbug,

Women can have more than one LH surge every month. With underlying hormonal problems like PCOS LH rises can and do happen frequently. Another problem with temp charting is that not every rise in LH is followed by ovulation.

Would certainly not use temp charts, saliva testers (unreliable at best in any event) or OPK's at all if there is a PCOS diagnosis as using such tests in such circumstances are very likely to give false readings.

HTH

Hi Meerkat!

Please keep on replying! I read your postings on other threads and it seems you have a lot of knowledge on the matter.
I also was diagnosed with PCOS. I'd like to learn how to deal with this problem.

So here are some more questions for you:

1. If women have more than one LH surge then they did not ovulate for that month?
2. have you tried acupuncture? or herbal medicine?
3. Have you found a way of predicting ovulation?

Thanks in advance

i guess you can sense the desperation in my writing

also if anybody else wantsto share their experience.
greenbug

Greenbug

don't know about PCOS but we tried for three years to conceive ds religiously adhearing to the fourteen day ovulation thing. Turned out I didn't OV until day 18/19/20 - found this out through temping though as I say, I don't have experience of PCOS. The whole 14 day thing makes me livid - I can't believe doctors etc treat it as gospel. Good luck - sending babydust your way.

Just had a thought. Does Toni Weschler (Taking Charge/Control of Your Fertility) have anything to say about PCOS, temping and ovulation?). That book was a godsend to me though I don't remember if she deals with PCOS.

Hi Ziggy!

thanks for your advice. I'lll have a look at the book you suggested. PCOS is a real bugger.
When you did your temp did you discover more than one LH surge in your cicles?

Hi Greenbug,

Saw your message with questions.

I was diagnosed with PCOS back in 1997.

1. The problem (one of many with PCOS I might add) is that many women with this condition have an excess of LH hormone in their bloodstream compared with their FSH hormone level. Normally these two levels are the same but one possible indicator of PCOS is that LH is higher than FSH. Hence measures to try to predict ovulation like temp charting is not really worth doing. The same problem occurs with OPK's; these read the amount of LH hormone (such kits wrongly assume that all women have one rise in LH every month and that such a rise is immediately followed by ovulation - not true). Some women with PCOS do spontaneously ovulate occasionally but many women with PCOS do have ovulation problems generally so require specialist help to kickstart ovulation.

2. Have not tried accupuncture (too many needles for my liking!!) but would strongly advise you not to self medicate with herbal medicines like for instance Agnus Castus if your have a PCOS diagnosis. Such herbs can in some cases make things worse. If you really want to try herbal medicines seek out the advice of a properly qualified medical herbalist.

3. Short answer is no. The only surefire way of knowing whether I personally ovulated or not was to have a series of blood tests done over a period of several months. Most months ovulation did not happen.

Are you currently under the care of a gynae re your PCOS?.

HTH

Meerkats

Dear Meerkats,

Thank you so much for your reply. I was also diagnosed with pl ovaries but not quite PCOS. I am trying to find the original test. I remember the doctor saying that only one of the ovary was affected? is that possible? if that's the case shouldn't I ovulate every other month? Oh, it's so difficult when the information is limited. and now things might have changed as that was i think about 6 years ago. It bothered me but since my dh at that time did not want children I was just hoping the problem to go away.

I am being seen by a gynae and I was pruscribed clomid for my next cycle. So I am waiting for it. The reason I started this thread was in the past few months I have been testing with OPK's but no surge detected. this month there was a surge and I was so surprised I had to check with others in the know esp. as it happened on d21 & d22.

I've had few blood tests on d2, d21 d28 and they indicated that on those perticular months I did not ovulate. the problem is that the docotrs never gave me a copy of the tests to see which hormone is out of order.
With regards to herbs, I am also sceptical now as I went to a Dr. China brunch and after talking through a translator to the doctor, she didn't quite know what PCOS meant, however she still wanted to sell me 5 different types of herbs and for 1 moth it would have cost hundreds of pounds -with no explanation on what they actually were.

Do women with PCOS have slightly elevated basal temeprature?

Are you taking clomid?

greetings,
greenbug

Hi Greenbug

Just wanted to lend my support .. I had short post-luteal phases .. ovulating around day 23 but only around 8 days from ovulation to AF so couldn't conceive

Went on clomid and conceived first cycle

I would strongly recommend the Toni Weschler book ..

good luck

Hi Greenbug,

I sympathise - PCO can also be just as difficult as the full blown syndrome PCOS to deal with.

Both ovaries are often affected by the multiple cystic follicles that are associated with PCO. Ovulation is a totally random process, which ovary ovulates in any given month is entirely random.

Will you be given any form of monitoring whilst on clomid?. Ideally you should be having both blood tests and ultrasounds to check to see that an egg has actually left the ovary.

Was considered for clomid but was unable to take it due to it being unsuitable for me (it can increase LH levels and mine were sky high already due to PCOS).

Please do not worry if clomid does not work out for you; there are other treatment options. It is not an insurmountable problem as regards conception.

Meerkats
You are entitled to have copies of your blood test results.

Many women with PCOS have temps that on a graph look like the Rocky Mountains and therefore such temp shifts will be misleading. In such circumstances I would strongly suggest you not chart at all. Just go by the blood tests and the gynae's instructions.

Hi Meerkat, hi twiglett!

Thank you for your messages. I feel I understand better now this condition. Esp. after the m/c i was just bombarding myself with questions on how to link the two and have areasonable explanation.

I will be given clomid from day 2-6 and then I was told that I need to be monitored from day 8-9 onwards with ultrasounds and I guess blood tests. Does this sound as the normal procedure. I was also prescribed injections but the nurse said that these might not be used (if they were that would be towards the end of the cycle).

I will book a GP appointment today to ask for all my blood tests. now i can read them.

greetings!
greenbug