Immune/NK cells - pred thread 28

[myrainbowjourney]

Hi Ladies

New thread 🥰

If you comment to hold your place. I'll try and tag as many as I can xxx

Oh, I'm so sorry @myrainbowjourney 😢❤️ sending you a big hug. It's awful. Did the clinic say to continue this cycle, are you triggering? It's such a hard journey.

Thank you for your comments earlier. I think I'll just wait to see Dr S, it shouldn't be too much longer now. I think the not knowing is so hard. I'm much better when I have a plan in place.

Thank you @StillTrying10000 I'm kind of hoping for a chromosomal issue this time. We have one embryo on ice, which I won't test. I don't want to thaw and freeze again. I think I could deal with a loss due to chromosomes. But another normal loss on the plan makes me really anxious. This one was a mirror copy of my 4th loss, which was a normal boy and no immune meds (was before we saw Dr S). My head is abit frazzled at the moment 😓

Thank you @VenusStarr. They still want me to continue with the cycle. I had a 20mm follicle on the right and 15 on the left. They want me to trigger in 2 days. The doctor I saw said she would usually trigger today as the big one is the perfect size, but she called Dr S and he suggested triggering in 2 days in the hope that the left one will be big enough.

I have a feeling I'll ovulate naturally before that.

I just don't know how much more I can take. I'm so deflated. I want to have hope and I just don't know where to find it anymore.

Yes it's always good having a plan, makes you feel like you are doing something proactive. I'm sure he will have something up his sleeve xxx

I hadn't seen your earlier message @myrainbowjourney there is still hope ❤️ I thought I would ovulate before my trigger too when I did it. I heard that they are waiting a bit longer to trigger. I triggered the day after I had one at 17mm. What dose are you on next time (hopefully you won't need it!) I did 7.5mg.
Lots of love xxx

@VenusStarr oh did you? Hopefully mine will be at least 17 in 2 days. Slightly worried the bigger one will over mature and the little one will be too little.
They are putting me to 12.5 for my last go - she said this was pushing it but it's the only way to go I suppose. She said about the risk of twins but to be honest, I don't see us doing this again if we were lucky and fell pregnant so if I got 2 I'd be delighted

Thank you xxx

I think they can grow 1-2mm a day @myrainbowjourney 🤞hopefully perfect timing for you.

I know what you mean, if we are lucky to get a baby at the end of all this, that will be the only one. I can't do all this again xx

Im so sorry to see some of you of going through so much. It sounds very tough. Sending best wishes to you all.
I don't know if anyone can help with this- My partner had the sperm DNA fragmentation test and it's come back abnormal. Does this mean we will need IVF or can this be corrected? Does anyone have any experience of this?

@WillowTree0721 sorry you've been facing challenges. I didn't reply sooner as I don't have experience of this myself but I understand it may be improved with lifestyle changes. Does your partner have a very healthy lifestyle already or are there any changes he could make. Have you been having issues with convincing or recurrent losses?
And just to say if you do end up down the IVF route - the money is a lot, but the actual process really isn't so bad when you get to it and can all happen quite quickly if you are going private xxx

Hi @WillowTree0721 that was one of our issues. DH went in for a consultation about it and found he had an infection so had to take antibiotics, it was also suggested that he cut down on red meat and alcohol. They also said that he should be regularly be "erupting" 😂 as apparently this can make a difference. Got a test done 3m later and the score was still classed as "high", but he had halved the score with all the various measures. They didn't say to us the only option was IVF, we've done 3 basic cycles of medication with no luck so now moving to super ovulation. Suggest making an appointment and seeing what they say. Good luck xx

@WillowTree0721 I don't have experience of this either as we didn't have OH tested. But Mr S gave me the paperwork about it and it can definitely be improved. Like @89Hope said it was about lifestyle changes and supplements.
I think if we have no luck on these last cycles we will look at it - seems a bit backwards but we couldn't really afford it at the time, on top of everything else. I think once I'd been told about my cells I sort of assumed the issue was with me so we just didn't do it. Half kicking myself now 😢

@StillTrying10000 the thought of the cost of IVF terrifies me. I'm not sure I've got it in me financially, mentally...
Although I always go through this emotion before realising how much I want this.

Thankyou @StillTrying10000 and @myrainbowjourney - that's great to hear lifestyle and supplements can help.

@StillTrying10000 our issue is recurrent losses. My results came back with high killers cells etc and particularly my TNF alpha cells which I posted about previously. I really didn't expect my partner to have a problem though.

He's actually super healthy but he does do a lot of cycling so I'm going to ask him to stop that for now just incase that impacted it. That's good to know the IVF can be booked quickly if needed. I'm 37 and just feel really panicked now 😔

@89Hope - Thankyou so much for sharing that. Did your DH have any symptoms of an infection? I know they suggest getting a specialist urine test done with them to check for urine infection etc. My partner feels fine but is it possible to not realise? I'll mention the red meat, alcohol and regularly erupting to him 😂

That's also great to hear you managed to reduce the score so much with a few changes and treatment for the infection.
I've already started him on the Impryl supplement and I've booked us in to see Dr Gordon x

@WillowTree0721 Oww wow so it's another thing to think about on top of everything else! That's really tough. It can often feel like a very endless journey. Hopefully you feel one step closer to finding a solution though and you're in the right place to find them x

Hey guys, I just wondered what does super ovulation involve?

@SunDance21 For me it was taking Leztrole tablets days 2-6 of my cycle, a scan on day 9 to check I had 1-3 correctly sized follocals (the things your eggs are held in) then I took a Ovitrelle trigger shot (self administered injection) to release the eggs. You are then given two exact days to have sex on to give you the best chance of conceiving. x

@SunDance21 same as @StillTrying10000 except I have my follicle scan day 11-13.

@StillTrying10000 are you with Mr S? Interesting yours is day 9.

I had my first scan on cd9 @myrainbowjourney as I usually ovulate on cd10/11 but although I had 3 follicles they were too small. It also showed my lining was very thin at that point, so I'll need progynova (estrogen) in future ones. I was diagnosed with adenomyosis as well. It was horrible.
In the end I think I triggered on cd16. I think I'll go on cd11 next time I try it.

How are you? Hope you're feeling OK.

Hope everyone else is getting on alright xx

Thank you @VenusStarr, that's interesting. I guess he said 11-13 as my cycles are usually long. But I couldn't understand that as the letrozole forces a shorter cycle.

We now always do day 11 as my follicles are normally the right size by then. I ask because I wondered if I had ovulated by the time I had my scan, though that would be so early. Only because this cycle I decided to do OPKs and my temperature so I had an idea I had actually ovulated (with temp, I'd stop OPKs once I trigger) and I had a dark one and a temp rise on Monday. But I'd have thought she would have said if I'd ovulated.

Sorry you didn't have a good experience. Sounds like day 11 will work better for you, and save some money on extra scans!

I am ok thanks, I just still feel disheartened and I feel myself just feeling angry and bitter at the world, and everyone who seems to find it so easy. I don't like feeling like that, but it's hard not to.

How are you? xxx

I did try temping in my cycle but found the letrozole gave me higher temps earlier in my cycle @myrainbowjourney I did have very strong ovulation pains from the morning of trigger until 2 days after. It's all a bit of a minefield isn't it.

I'm sorry you're feeling disheartened ❤️ I can definitely relate to that. It's relentlessly hard going, especially when you're tracking your cycle / taking meds, you just can't switch off. I think it's normal, so don't be hard on yourself.

I'm getting anxious about our results now, just keep thinking will it be today and what they'll tell us, if anything. We've got this week off together and I'm trying to be present but it's really difficult. I'm going to email the hospital next week as it'll be week 10. That's when I got the results last time. Ugh. I wish none of us were going through this 😢 xx

@VenusStarr I definitely am taking all temps etc with a pinch of salt. I just realised that I'm doing this and have no idea if I actually ovulate. So thought I'd give it a go. It really is a minefield, and I still don't understand enough about it all. And it's hard to put all your faith and trust into people who do. I like some control and I feel I have none.

It's exactly that, no switch off. I want to live life but everything is based around this. Needing to be here for appointments, not wanting to book xyz because 'what if'. It's madness. Our neighbours have invited us over next week for a catch up and I'm wondering how to say I'm not drinking. Because I feel guilty having a drink - pretty sure the clinic would say not to. But it's like life is entirely on hold.
I've never asked the clinic about it - how do you feel about stuff like that?

I can only imagine how anxious you are getting. I wish I had some advice as to how you can be present for your week off but it's so hard. Someone once said to acknowledge the anxiety and give it an amount of time, but then park it and do something else. I guess in theory this will take less of your day as you actually sit with the anxiety for a while, rather than it lingering all day. But I think that's easier said than done.
Do you have any nice plans?
I wish that too, so much. It all feels so unfair xxx

It's because it means so much to us and passing control over to someone else doesn't have the same impact on them, like if it doesn't work this time, you can just try next month 🤷🏻‍♀️ but for us, it's not just a case of trying again and we're OK. It's pretty devastating. Especially when getting pregnant is the first hurdle and we need to test out the protocol to see if it works. It's so exhausting and soul destroying.

I do drink @myrainbowjourney I'm not a massive drinker, but I do allow myself one. In my tww I'm a bit more cautious, but would still probably have one bottle of beer if I fancied it.

We've been pottering this week. Painted our bedroom and I bought a new desk for work (at home), so will get some bits tomorrow to make it nice. Distraction definitely helps with my anxiety, if I try and sit with it, it spirals so I have to be careful.

@VenusStarr you are spot on with that. It's exactly right. They are so convinced they've got it right and it's a matter of time, and while that's comforting, it's not now. And every month strips us of some hope, some positivity and a lot of cash!

I think I might just allow myself a glass. I don't have much hope for this cycle so it seems a shame to not go. It's too hard to make an excuse so I either have to tell them or cry off. I used to think I'm not putting life on hold - so many drink and don't know they are pregnant etc, but I'm starting to get desperate and will try anything. It's easier this time of year as there's not much going on, but it pains me to stop socialising as well as everything else.

Ooh home improvements always feel so satisfying. I hate painting, but we have done some rooms recently and it's so worth it. Hopefully you can keep busy for the rest of the week, it definitely does help. I'm finding I need ways to release my emotions with all this, otherwise I fear it will eat me up and I'll be a different human entirely, full of bitterness. I'll be the crazy lady that kids in the local area avoid 😂

@myrainbowjourney you could always say you are doing dry January if you don’t want to have a drink.

Hi ladies, hope you won’t mind me joining and asking a question, but I first wanted to say how sorry I am. Reading about your experiences makes me feel less alone. But it’s also incredibly sad to see so many people going through RPL.

I’ve had multiple losses since having my daughter seven years ago and am about to start IVF after a long break. It’s been suggested that we see Raj Rai for TEG testing as it’s one test we haven’t explored and before starting IVF I don’t want to leave any stones unturned. Has anyone had this test and found it useful?

@InvisibleDreamer I would do but it's in Feb 😂. Also, I've seen her and she said about prosecco and I didn't say anything, because I'm ridiculous 🤣.

@TheHopefulEgg sorry to hear about your losses. Keeping everything crossed for you as you start your journey. Is that blood clotting? I had the blood tests and it confirmed I didn't have a clotting issue, but I know they can put you on blood thinning injections if they need to. Sorry if that's not what it is - had a quick Google and saw about clotting xxx

@myrainbowjourney I believe it determines how much aspirin and clexane I need. Hoping to find out more from clinic but I’m impatient. I was negative for APS but my history suggests a clotting pattern (according to some of the consultants I’ve seen). There are other factors too - male and female - so I don’t believe there’s one cause for our losses x

@myrainbowjourney found some info from St Mary’s. Will paste here in case anyone finds it useful:

“Thromboelastography (TEG) is a “near patient” test to assess blood clotting. It detects clotting abnormalities that lead to a pro-thrombotic state that are not identified with conventional testing. The maximum amplitude (MA) in this test reflects the strength of the clot which is dependent on number and function of platelets and its interaction with fibrin. The major advantage of this method for patients is that it requires only a small blood sample and the results are rapidly available. We perform this test outside pregnancy to identify those who are at greater risk of a further miscarriage, to offer them treatment in their next pregnancy. Those who have a normal TEG outside pregnancy will be offered a repeat test in pregnancy to determine if they would require medication in pregnancy.”

So looks like I’ll need test now and in a future (fingers crossed healthy) pregnancy.