Double LH surge?

[SnowWhite1985]

Hi everyone. I'm 35 and have been ttc (unsuccessfully) for 8 cycles. Since the outset I've been using opks to track ovulation. I usually see LH surge quite early so have consistently estimated ovulation between days 9 to 13 (most usually day 10, 11 or 12). I usually use two opks - I use the clearblue smiley digital tests (the purple ones that also track estrogen) then more regularly use the cheapie ones. Last month I started tracking bbt for the first time on femometer app. My temps last month were a bit erratic I think because it was a really stressful month and I wasn't measuring at the same time each day. This month my temps were really steady pre-ovulation then I saw a temp drop coinciding with the flashing smiley then static smiley. I therefore assumed ovulation had happened on day 10 (as would be normal for me). Cheapie LH tests were also negative after that. My temp then began to rise after "ovulation". Ovulation at day 10 was confirmed on two apps. Anyway, my temp didn't rise very much and then it started dropping again. So I decided to do an LH test (which I wouldn't normally do at this stage as I wouldn't have the bbt data). I used a different clearblue holder and it was a flashing smiley and the cheapie LH test line was dark but not positive. Next day (day 14) the LH line was super dark (much darker than it had been for the original "ovulation") and I got a static smiley. I'm now on day 15 and have had quite a lot of pain which is unusual for me. I'm now assuming the first "ovulation" was a failed attempt? And this is the real "ovulation"?? My concern now is I can't trust the tests as it says to stop testing after getting the static smiley which is what I've done but the bbt tells a different story. Don't know if this is just a one off, or if this happens to me every month. Does anyone have any experience or insights into this? I read it could be multiple follicular stimulation where ovulation hadn't been successful the first time. Feeling very frustrated as thought I was getting to understand my cycles which have been (I thought) very consistent. But now I could be misinterpreting ovulation if this is a regular occurrence and mistiming our best chance of conceiving. Thank you!!

This was our experience. Multiple LH surges, and it’s lead to a lot of confusion as to when our actual conception date is, but most of the tests we’ve done suggest that it was probably the second surge.

A fail attempt at ovulation can be common if I'll, stressed etc. It might not be every month but you might wish to Cary on with temping as that's the only way to say ovulation has actually happened whereas ovulation sticks just tell you your getting a spike in lh as you know, good luck x

Thanks for your replies @LookingforPositive @sarahc336! I’m especially glad to hear you conceived with the double surge @LookingforPositive. The app is now saying (based on my bbt) that the earlier surge was ovulation, which I don’t really understand at all given the lines are darker this time and there still hasn’t been a sustained increase in temperature yet. Maybe I haven’t ovulated at all this cycle - who knows! I guess it’s good to know to keep on doing the bbt and the LH tests even when you’re supposed to have stopped as I was convinced I’d knew my cycle was like clockwork but I had missed this second surge entirely (If that’s a regular thing). I guess I’ll see whether AF comes any later this month or same as usual. Should have started doing the bbt earlier as it’s useful info. I’m still not sure how to tell exactly from bbt of ovulation has occurred though - If temp rises briefly then falls again, is that confirmation or not? It’s so confusing. Last month my temps were quite a bit higher after “ovulation” (always above 36.6 and up to 37), but this month they haven’t gone above 36.4, post “ovulation)??

To prove ovulation you're temp needs to rise and stay high and then it starts to reduce down just before af is due xx

It might be helpful if you post a picture of your BBT chart as it's easier to see. Ovulation is 'confirmed' by at least three temps higher than the previous six. Sometimes there's a dip on O day, sometimes not (I didn't have a dip this cycle but usually do!) It's all about the rise. I'd assume the second LH surge might be actual ovulation based on your temps coming back down but you can get a 'fall back rise' between 1-3dpo and natural dips can happen throughout the luteal phase. This is why sometimes it's good just to post a screenshot of your chart so people can see 😊

Hi @sarahc336 @MrsKin90
Thanks so much for your replies. I’ve only done 2 cycles of bbt so far so still learning I guess. I have attached my chart for the current cycle (up to today) and for the previous cycle. Thanks so much for your help in interpreting it! been feeling really down about things so I appreciate it xx

@SnowWhite1985 based on your chart I'd say you can't confirm ovulation yet. Have you been having sex anyway until you're sure? Best to cover bases just in case if you can and do every few days (although every other is considered ideal).
See what your temp does over the next few days and hopefully it'll go up and one way or another you'll be able to pinpoint your O. You'll get to know your signs the more you track and eventually you'll be like me disagreeing with your BBT because you know better than any app 😁
Why are you feeling down?

Go to your GP and ask for a day 21 progesterone test. I had this and regular periods with non mature eggs. After seeing specialist I was given medication to support maturing of eggs

@SnowWhite1985 I would strongly recommend fertility friend for bbt tracking as femometer is much tougher to interpret and their algorithms aren't as advanced.

To confirm ovulation you need three temps after ovulation that are higher than the previous six. Based on that I'm not sure you've ovulated? It's really common to have multiple LH surges so don't worry about that but it def could mean you've been missing ovulation this while time if you didn't continue to DTD. Def keep up with temping as that will be your only way to confirm ovulation.

@LookingforPositive btw I think it's always the last LH surge that counts. If ovulation is successful there shouldn't be any more attempts at ovulating so as a rule it's the last surge that results in ovulation :)

@MrsKin90 thank you. We have been DTD as much as possible but my partner has to live during the week in a different city as he got transferred (temporarily we hope) with his work. So I have to drive 4-5 round trip to see him which makes the timing more important 😭 he expects me to know when the right time is but now I feel clueless! Hopefully it will become more clear with more months of bbt stats

@Porridgeoat thank you - I will do this. I had one a progesterone test about a year or so ago before we started trying. It was 9 whereas GP said it should be over 30, but it ended up being the wrong day as my cycles hadn’t regulated yet so the GP said not to worry about it. I should have got another one - will do that now. Would i book this for day 21 even though my normal “ovulation” (if it is ovulation) seems to be early - day 10/11. How did you determine from the chart that it might be a progesterone / non mature egg problem? (Just trying to learn how to interpret these things) - thanks so much!!

@Juno231 thanks so much I’ll use fertility friend. Really appreciate the advice. The Femometer alogoritm doesn’t seem great as I’m pretty sure the first one wasn’t ovulation now as I don’t think the LH lines were dark enough. But it’s still saying the ovulation was the first surge. I thought the real ovulation was perhaps yesterday which was the darker lines. I’m still only on day 15 of cycle so maybe temp will rise in next few days. Or did you mean I maybe didn’t ovulate the previous month as well? Sorry I’m just starting to learn about the bbt so all my knowledge is from googling so far. Really appreciate all the advice / info! I had no idea about multiple LH surges so have just been trusting the clear blue tests til now. So we could have literally missed it every month for the last 8 cycles which is slightly horrifying but good to know going forward. Thank you for your help xx

From memory there is a couple of days leeway with the day 21 progesterone test. You wouldn’t be able to get pregnant with a level of 9. My gp wanted Levels of 30 but my specialist (non nhs) wanted levels of 40 minimum. Ask to book a couple more day 21 tests And then ask for a referral on to a fertility specialist where you’ll have an internal scan to check for Polycystic ovaries. With clomid tablets I was able to conceive my babies. My levels were anything between 12 and 28 pre meds, with meds 38 to 50.

Thanks so much for this advice @Porridgeoat - I’ll be making an appointment in the morning! I’m day 15 at the moment so hopefully can arrange for a day 21 test this month. Really glad to hear you were able to conceive on clomid xx

I have two clomid babies - now almost teens. Keep us updated 😊

That’s really nice to hear @Porridgeoat
Will send an update when I know more about my situation! Thanks again for your help xx

@SnowWhite1985 I've got my day 21 test today actually - except it's on day 25 as I ovulated later than usual this month. Basically it needs to be between 6-8dpo so schedule it accordingly. Unless you have no idea when ovulation is -at which point they just give you the generic CD21 booking.

Thanks @Juno231. Best of luck with your day 21 test! My day 21 is on a Saturday this month, so I'm guessing the Monday would be best (day 23)? I really don't know when I ovulated this month, but I think it might be later than I originally suspected (which was day 10) so perhaps day 23 would be the best. I've made an appointment at the doctors this week as an initial fertility consultation. I also switched to fertility friend, which says it can't confirm my ovulation yet this month- so clearly a different algorithm from femtometer as you say! I also should have mentioned before that although I didn't manually temp before, I did 6 cycles on ovusense. It usually confirmed ovulation around day 10,11,12 but with that device they tell you to stop testing once it confirms ovulation so I actually don't have a full chart to show for those 6 months which is annoying now. Thanks again for your help! xx

@Juno231 thanks again for your recommendation of using fertility friend - I’m finding it SO much easier to see the trends interpret. I inputted my historical data for the 2 cycles. Its algorithm now thinks I ovulated on the second LH peak (see attached picture) a few days ago.
I’ve had really unbearable pain at night for the past three nights now - first time in my life I’ve had pain mid-cycle. So I’m thinking maybe something’s gone wrong this cycle and it’s a cyst or similar. I haven’t been able to sleep til like 5am for the pain. It’s more of a dull ache during the day but as soon as I lie down in bed at night I can’t get comfortable at all it’s intolerable. Last night I felt extremely nauseous and dizzy with the pain I am going to the doctors soon tho so hopefully will get some tests and clarity.
Thanks again for the advice! xx

Hi @SnowWhite1985 I am having the exact same thing this month. Very painful (not normal) but I did have my second COVId jab the day before the first LH spike so I’m wondering if that knocked ovulation off? Please can you let me know what happened to you? X

How did you get on in the end?

I am in the same situation. X

@Steph2408 are you in the same situation in that you get more than one LH surge?

Yes, a second surge and just had my 21 day test on Monday, which was before the second surge.

So wondering if that will mess up my test as well!

x