Immune/NK Issues - aka Pred Thread no 24!

[KittyKatSmile]

An introduction to this thread. It has been running for many years and has proved a saviour for so many of us who have suffered recurrent miscarriages as we go through this incredibly tough journey.

Discussions cover NK (natural killer) cells, thyroid issues, PGS and many many more.

Welcome to the group no-one wants to be in 

Tagging people from the previous thread but please tag anyone else I've missed.

@Chickjen @FrannyAnny82 @ginandtonicformeplease @HoldingOn2Hope @LockThatFridge @Luckyducky2 @MairMum18 @MrsMargot @weddinghelp1 @williteverhappen @Wishing5tar @zoe16
@Eeviee
@Ultra26

@HarrietM87 that was exactly how I felt. When I'd look at my 2 best friends I'd think that should have been me but with their babies I'm like defo don't want anyone else's babies. We were all 2 weeks apart with due dates. I've lost one of them as a good friend as she never understood what I was going through and would go on and on about her pregnancy, how it was so hard to swallow prenatal vitamins, the morning sickness blah blah. When the baby was born the moaning confined about painful breastfeeding - she would never ask me how I was, not even a simple 'how are you?' so I have it 6-7 months and told her how I felt and that she's been a shit friend and guess what I've not heard from her since.
Anyway I was saying in my post lastnight that my other good friend is acting strange via text and I think she's preg and she's just called me to say she is! I'm really delighted for her as she mc last year same time as me and is petrified but has loads of pregnancy symptoms so I'm hoping she will be fine!

*continued not confined

@peperethecat that's great news! The more tests the better especially if they are nhs? It may give you some answers before you continue with the next stage of ttc. I know I had a whole load done so I knew my next step was to see Dr S to investigate whatever the nhs couldn't help with.
Good luck for Friday x

Not NHS, I'm based in France.

Hi everyone, I’ve gotten myself into a bit of a flap & wondering if anyone has any pearls of wisdom. I’ve just been for my 2nd superovulation scan and although my response is better in terms of follicles, my lining is far too thin and it’s really upset me. I don’t understand now it’s so different from last month... I’ve been given Progynova to take 3 times a day until Thursday & I have to go back to get re-scanned then. Hopefully this helps but if anyone has had any success helping thin lining along with natural remedies then I’d really like to hear about it. Thanks in advance xx

Nobody is quite sure whether grapefruit juice actually raises estrogen levels in the body, but if it works to produce more EWCM (as some people swear it does) then it should work to thicken the endometrium as well. Worth a try?

@Crystal2020 I'm glad you've had a good response follicle wise :) what meds are you on? As I know clomid thins the lining although Dr S doesn't prescribe it so I'm not sure whether other stimulation drugs can do the same?
My lining was very thin too. I was on 2 progynova tablets a day but still wasn't great so 4 tablets now and it seems to have got better.
I actually looked at one of my pregnancy scans from last year and my endo lining was 2.6m 😐 so not surprising it didn't progress.
The progynova works pretty quickly so you should see a difference by Thursday- what was the lining thickness?
Also when I was having fertility acupuncture my acupuncturist told me to drink a tbsp of freshly squeezed like juice daily and to ensure I include dairy into my diet. I did that this month and my liking was much better. I've been on progynova for 3 months so I'm sure the lime juice played a part.
Xx

@Crystal2020
*Lime Juice

Thanks so much @peperethecat and @HoldingOnToHope. I’m off to get some grapefruit and limes 😊. It’s only day 8 so I know it’s really early but lining is only 4.98 which he said isn’t great at all. I think it was 7.5 on day 9 last month so I’m wondering if the meds have made a difference (it’s letrozole not Clomid). I have been running this month which I don’t normally do & now I’m obviously worried that it has depleted me! I’ve booked on to a meditation class tonight & I’m going to do my best to try & chill until Thursday (easier said than done!). That’s really reassuring to know that you’ve had a good response to the Progynova @HoldingOn2Hope. Fingers crossed I will see an improvement too. Thank you both. X

Hello just a quick note that my book says red raspberry leaf tea and vitamin E should help with uterine lining too. Good luck and all the best.

Thanks @Ultra26 - I think I might have some vit E here someplace. And will see if I can get some of the tea tomo. Going to try all of the things! X

I had an ultrasound this evening and I feel reassured. I told this new gynaecologist about my fears that my egg quality is crap and I keep having miscarriages because all my eggs are rubbish, and he said he didn't think that was likely given how many I seem to have in there. (It's CD11 and I had 12 on the right side and 7 on the left side.) So he thinks it might be a hormonal/implantation issue and that if we trigger ovulation with Ovidrel it might help. He also called the internal medicine specialist who is going to be looking at auto-immune issues and agreed that they will do intralipids when I go to the hospital on Friday. And I have another ultrasound on Thursday to check the size of my dominant follicle and my lining to see if we can trigger yet.

My lining was 5.3 which he said was fine, by the way.

@Crystal2020 I take 1000mg/day of Vitamin E in tocopherol form, prescribed by my doctor to help with my lining. And it's also an antioxidant which might help with egg quality. So don't be afraid to take a high dose.

@Ultra26 @Crystal2020
Red raspberry leaf tea is also good but only until ovulation apparently, not to drink once you've ovulated. And it has to be raspberry leaf tea which I only found in Holland & Barrett. Vitamin E definitely so nuts and seeds, I have a handful of walnuts a day. It's so expensive all the fertility food!

@Crystal2020 it's almost 5mm and it's only day 8. It grows 1-2mm daily so hopefully you will be ok. As long as you reach 7mm that's the requirement. Fingers crossed! 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽

@Crystal2020 hopefully this will massively reassure you - the cycle I conceived this time my lining was only 5mm on day 9. I was really worried about it! I saw Dr Jan (Mr S was away) and he seemed a bit surprised but he didn’t prescribe me anything! He said it normally grows about 1mm per day so should be 7mm by the time I triggered on day 11, and even more by the time I actually ovulated. Obviously all was fine as I conceived that cycle!

Incidentally I do think the meds thinned my lining. I had no issues on the lower doses of letrozole but when I went up to 7.5mg I had a really light period the cycle before I conceived. If I hadn’t conceived I would have asked about it and prob requested progynova after reading about it on here.

Instead I took selenium and vitamin E and hoped for the best!

@HarrietM87 thank you so much for your message. I think I’ll sleep easier tonight knowing that! I’ve never had lining issues before so I think it makes sense that it’s the letrozole. I texted my acupuncturist and he said it’s a common issue with these types of drugs.

Thank you all for your suggestions and reassurance @HoldingOn2Hope @peperethecat @Ultra26. Feeling much better than I did after my appointment. X

@Crystal2020 definitely the meds that cause thin lining. I was on clomid 2018/2019 prescribed by my nhs consultant and there was no discussion about thinning of lining it was only when I researched myself. All 3 of my pregnancies were a result of clomid and as they was no scans, tracking involved I was none the wiser. I'm sure it played a part in all 3 mc's. Like I said one of my scans in very early preg showed endo lining at 2.66m - I wish I knew all this then!
We are lucky Dr S scans & prescribes is meds required. I discussed this with him at my appt on Monday as was curious about that scan from last year.
Just think you're probably almost 6mm by tomorrow :) and it's only day 9! My lining on Monday was 8mm on day 12 and he was happy about it. It was also thinner than March's scan and coincidentally I'm on a higher dose of meds.

Anyone else find these steroids make you really hungry or is it just me??? I keep craving salty snacks and sugar! So glad I'm in leggings these days as my jeans won't be fitting anytime soon!

That’s a good way of looking at it @HoldingOn2Hope. At least I’m aware and something is being done about it. Fingers crossed for 6mm tomorrow! 8mm is great plus all your follicles this time too!!

Oh god yes, the steroids make me so so hungry! And thirsty! I asked Dr S about the thirst today but he said it’s normal. I feel like I spend the rest of the month trying to balance out all that I eat for the 10 days I’m taking those bloody things!

@Crystal2020 glad you are feeling a bit more positive, to the echo the others my acupuncturist said vitamin E, selenium (i.e. brazil nuts) and lots of green leafy vegetables.

@HoldingOn2Hope & @Crystal2020 I definitely crave salty things, but also water! I drink probably a litre of water every night (during the night) and have to get up to go to the loo at least once.

@Eeviee how did you get on with your appointment?

x

@Crystal2020 suggestions to help lingo all sound good but just to bear in mind that Vit E is a blood thinner so be careful if you are on aspirin or fish oil as can have an additive effect. Good Vut E foods are almonds, avocados, sunflower seeds other nuts too.

Also be careful of grapefruit, it's contraindicated with many medications, as it has a component which affects liver metabolism so can either cause meds to be processed too fast or stop them being métabolised which can cause a build up of medication. I'm not sure what meds you are on but maybe worth checking maybe with the nurses? That's why grapefruit helps Cervical mucus as it stops the breakdown of œstrogènes in the liver so more build up in the blood and œstrogen is what gives good CM. Sorry don't want to worry you but worth knowing these things. Hope it works and you get a good lining. X

Yes, that's a good point. I'm not on any medication at the moment, only vitamins, so I figured I'm OK to cane the grapefruit juice for a few days.

@Eeviee, are you using a foreign keyboard? Your post has lots of foreign characters in it!

Morning everyone, how are you all doing?

Been busy at work, so not had the chance to be on here much, but thought I will check in.

I was reading about food and being more prone to "indulgences" like wine, coffee, sugary stuff (in my case cake), and I thought I could have written every message myself. I do agree that we need those from time to time, because..well, otherwise we would go mad, but I still feel guilty! Yesterday I had an apple and rhubarb crumble and was gagging for a glass of red, but managed to talk myself out of it..
Also avoiding coffee is so difficult, esp as we now get coffee for free at work.

Phone consultation with Mr S was great. Thought he was very friendly. He did go fast, but I work with doctors on a daily basis, so I'm used to it. Managed to ask everything I wanted and got succinct answers. Now I just have to suck it up and get those tests done. Hubs will kill me when he sees the bill! Also, really don't fancy a trek to London .. I need to stop moaning, don't I?

Lining issues. I have the opposite issue - my lining is always quite thick. My clinic never scans me before commencing oestrogens so I don't know my baseline. At last FET, I had 14 mm lining that that was a few days prior to transfer! Noone seems to thing it's an issue but me. I'm at a loss of what to do for next time. My consultant wants me to take the same amount of oestrogen, but I really don't want to. Mr S is suggesting a natural cycle , but my IVF consultant is quite rigid and I know will push for medicated.

Anyway, that's me ladies. It's only Tuesday and I already dreaming it was a weekend!

Hey everyone. I've been lurking for a while as although I was pescribed the pred before lockdown I've been too nervous to start taking it with everything going on.

I've seen the official advice from Dr S about lowering the dose but the only advice to those who are still trying was to stop for now. Both me and hubby are eager to start trying again but scared of me being on immunosuppressives during coronavirus and of being pregnant at the moment and having to go to scans alone etc.

We also don't think we know how much of a risk we would be taking if we start trying, so it's hard to make a decision that feels right for us. What things have you considered when choosing whether to try at the moment?

I'm glad to hear the good news from some of you and I hope everyone is managing OK at the moment.

@Countrygirl220 the appointment was fine, nothing surprising. He said that if there was a positive outcome for a miscarriage then chromosomal was best as it's random and it means treatment may still work. He said I could stay on the pred or switch to hydroxy, I've opted to switch and try hydroxy- mostly because I know it's used for people with lupus and anti-phospholipid syndrome. Plus you don't have to time it with ovulation etc..

I'm just struggling with an uncommunicative partner, he asked what the doc said but then didn't comment or say anything. We've not discussed trying again and he's not come near me for sex since we conceived so I'm a bit worried about everything- any tips on navigating these difficulties with your OHs I'd love to know.

How are you doing? Hope you are well?

@peperethecat I'm on my phone but sometimes type in French so think that's why the accents come up!

@Hippo20 it's a tough one, where do you live? I feel quite safe and it's easy for me to isolate as I'm in rural Scotland. Dr S told me that they know that pred at doses for 20mg or more, for 4 weeks or more, make you immune compromised. Hence why he's dropped to 15mg.

@FrannyAnny82 been thinking of you, hope
you're doing ok.

Hope you're all staying safe ladies. X