Atilla - your help is needed!

[RahRah1]

Hi, how are you?

I had a blood test today on CD2 given to me my the fertility consultant once he decided we can go forward for IUI. We are currently on the waiting list. What would the test be for? I think I saw L on the form... should of checked it but forgot! GRRR

Thanks

Atilla- what's your medical background? Are you a fertility specialist?

At a guess luteinising hormone, that can be measured on Day 3.

manuka - no medical background at all (have said that before in answer to others asking). Learnt lots from my own experience of fertility treatment.

Thanks Attila....

What is luteinising hormone?

How comes I had mine on day 2?

(Ready you get the blame for spelling the goddess of knowledges name wrong!)

I asked because you seem very knowledgable about all the tests and treatments etc for infertility. I hope you have had success with your own treatment.
Also I've noticed you really slate accupuncture and I don't think you should especially because so many people on here respect your opinion.
Please don't be offended by my comments I'm not out for a silly fight!
I have 11 years of experience doing lymphatic drainage and have studied anatomy and physiology to advanced levels. Many of my patients are referals from oncologists and I also treat a few doctors. My sister is a paediatrican and she asks for my advice as often as I ask for hers.
I have seen first hand how many disorders can be righted with complementary therapies and accupuncture is very effective in the treatment of fertility. I used it myself when I stopped ovulating. I now have a daughter.
My gp does accupuncture and homeopathy and when I had pnd it was those therapies that he used instead of prozac.
You are a fountain of knowledge for many people on here which is a blessing but please don't put people off trying other things alongside conventional treatments because for many many people it is the right thing for them.
Once again please don't take offence by my comments as I highly respect your knowledge and the help you give people on here. I realise written words can come across quite badly sometimes!

Manuka

No offence taken at all.

I do know of some women who have had success with for their various fertility issues using accupuncture alongside conventional treatments. Many of them have credited accupuncture with relaxing them and maybe this together with the conventional treatment has the desired effect.

I do wonder though as to accupuncture's effacacy with regards to male factor fertility problems though as sperms are complicated things and there is much about them that is not understood. I would say that I have not looked into that particular issue in any great depth but am willing to read up further on the subject.

As with all branches of medicine there is good and poor treatment. I feel that whatever route is taken questions of the practitioner should always be asked. I would always advise someone for instance if they wanted to use a herbal remedy not to self medicate (particularly if PCOS is an issue) but to seek out a properly qualified medical herbalist instead.

With best wishes

Attila

Attila - you missed my post

www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/hypopit/lhfsh.html

Sorry Rahrah, I meant to post you this as this has information on LH.

If memory serves were you origninally diagnosed with PCO?.

Why has IUI been suggested?.

Absolutely. No one should ever self medicate with herbal medicines as some can be dangerous.
Accupuncture is an extremely interesting subject well worth a serious look into. It works on the principal of energy which is what ultimately everything is (protons, neutrons and electrons) so with that in mind, anything could be affected.
It all comes down to how good the practitioner is in the end. There's an extremely highly regarded accupuncturist at my partners' practice and she gets referals from all over the uk from so many specialists.
Have you ever thought of retraining in the medical field? I know it takes years but you're obviously interested in the subject of fertility and having had your own experiences you would probably make an excellent practitioner.

oops. sincere apologies for incorrect spelling

Thanks Attila,

Very technical then!

I was diagnoised with PCO, but only borderline. But sufficient for one consultant to suggest clomid. However my normal fertility consultant who we have been seeing for a couple of years has flatly refused to use clomid on me. He states that I ovulate and have regular periods and therefore clomid would not be recommended for me. It took us 18 months to become pregnant before and have been trying for 9 cycles now since losing our baby, so the consultant has agreed that when it has been 12 months he will complete 3 cycles of IUI. He has advised this is not normal as the guidelines say 3 years of unexplained infertility (which is what we have), but under the circumstances he is willing to use IUI without the drug therapy to help us mentally. Basically I think he is hoping it will allow us to relax and catch naturally prior to doing the treatment. He has advised on the figures and that trying naturally will give us a higher chance, but we feel naturally we don't catch easily and its worth giving it a try. We have been trying for a baby for so long now it is killing us!

Hope this all makes sense. X

I was diagnoised with PCO, but only borderline. But sufficient for one consultant to suggest clomid. However my normal fertility consultant who we have been seeing for a couple of years has flatly refused to use clomid on me. He states that I ovulate and have regular periods and therefore clomid would not be recommended for me. It took us 18 months to become pregnant before and have been trying for 9 cycles now since losing our baby, so the consultant has agreed that when it has been 12 months he will complete 3 cycles of IUI. He has advised this is not normal as the guidelines say 3 years of unexplained infertility (which is what we have), but under the circumstances he is willing to use IUI without the drug therapy to help us mentally. Basically I think he is hoping it will allow us to relax and catch naturally prior to doing the treatment. He has advised on the figures and that trying naturally will give us a higher chance, but we feel naturally we don't catch easily and its worth giving it a try. We have been trying for a baby for so long now it is killing us!

Hi rahrah,

Are you being seen at a private clinic?.

Thing is there is no such thing as "borderline" PCO - you either have this or you do not. The commonality between this and PCOS (the syndrome itself) are the cystic follicles on the ovaries. If you do ovulate (does he do blood tests every month to track this?) and have regular periods then I can understand why he says no clomid. I was advised no clomid usage though for different reasons.

IUI can have more affect on your sex life than some are prepared to admit. It is unlikely to work in the first month and therefore several goes may be needed. I hope I'm wrong here but he has not offered you anything really concrete here.

No we are being seen at our local hospital.

I have had two scans that show PCO from 2 different consultants, but do not have PCOS. My consultant feels that the PCO has no bearing on my fertility. I have had 3 blood tests over the last couple of years that have all shown I have ovulated, but he does not regularly track by blood test. The IUI will track my follicle's etc, so I think that will be reassuring. In addition if the first 3 goes don't work then they will review for another 3 or at what point to progress to IVF. However he feels IVF is far to much at this stage. In regards to our sex life, it is already very effected and has been for a few years, especially for the last 9 months. TTC is very stressful in itself and to be quite honest when I finally got pregnant I was quite pleased at the thought I had an excuse for 9 months , little did I know we would have to get straight back at it! I wish in some ways we had taken a break from TTC after we first had the baby, but we did not give ourselves that time.

"My consultant feels that the PCO has no bearing on my fertility"

Why does he think this?. Not all of the cystic follicles pertaining to PCO contain eggs; some of these are dormant and yet more release hormones.

"I have had 3 blood tests over the last couple of years that have all shown I have ovulated, but he does not regularly track by blood test. The IUI will track my follicle's etc, so I think that will be reassuring".

Three blood tests over the past couple of years, what are they playing at?. Its not good enough (mutters severely!!!). Any test result over six months old should be discounted. Have you never had any internal ultrasound scans done?.

At least now your follicles will be tracked.

If IUI does not work (and I sincerely hope to goodness it does) I would seriously consider another larger NHS hospital. It is fair to say that some units are far better than others in this regard.

My hospital is massive and have an independent womens hospital, however the antenatal care is pants. The consultant I see is actually the medical director of the womens hospital and heads up CRM. To be honest if the IUI does not work we will be going private for a second opinion. My Obs & Gynie consultant that I had when I was pregnant reckons I was showing up to many indicators for there not to be a problem, however he ran some tests and could not find anything either, but I have not seen him since we lost the baby and he conducted a review meeting with us and told us not to come back to him again until we were pregnant.

PCO - I have been given one scan by the fertility consultant internally and he said it was marginal that i had PCO. I then went for a private scan (which got the other consultants back up) and he said I had PCO and could do with some clomid as I was on CD20 and the eggs did not look particularly big and I only had one really good egg that month and he would of expected to have seen some more slightly smaller eggs. (does this make sense) However he did say the clomid would speed up me getting pregnant but if I left it naturally he can not see why it would not happen, but might take longer... why would he say this??

Bump for Attila

Hi Rahrah,

Have just seen this post of yours:-

"My hospital is massive and have an independent womens hospital, however the antenatal care is pants. The consultant I see is actually the medical director of the womens hospital and heads up CRM. To be honest if the IUI does not work we will be going private for a second opinion. My Obs & Gynie consultant that I had when I was pregnant reckons I was showing up to many indicators for there not to be a problem, however he ran some tests and could not find anything either, but I have not seen him since we lost the baby and he conducted a review meeting with us and told us not to come back to him again until we were pregnant".

So this man (medical director, CRM is he a cons gynae?).

Think you're wise to consider another opinion. If you do go private you need to be cautious. Not all private treatment is good, some of it is infact very poor as well as being expensive. Do your researches carefully before parting with your hard earnt cash. BTW if you find a cons gynae in the private sector that also does NHS work this can be seen as a measure of competance.

"PCO - I have been given one scan by the fertility consultant internally and he said it was marginal that i had PCO".

Marginal, sigh. The cystic follicles with PCO can disappear - only to be replaced by further cystic follicles. You may have been scanned at a time when the follicles were smaller.

"I then went for a private scan (which got the other consultants back up) and he said I had PCO and could do with some clomid as I was on CD20 and the eggs did not look particularly big and I only had one really good egg that month and he would of expected to have seen some more slightly smaller eggs. (does this make sense)

Yes. However, some of the cystic follicles are very small and are thus not easily visible. Did your ovaries appear larger than normal (walnut) size?. If so this is another indicator of PCO.

"However he did say the clomid would speed up me getting pregnant but if I left it naturally he can not see why it would not happen, but might take longer... why would he say this??".

Think he may have been getting ahead of himself here. Clomid also may not speed up you getting pg that's the problem. If you have PCO some of these cystic follicles contain hormones; these follicles that pump out hormone serve to affect ovulation further. Clomid also encourages LH to be produced; if your levels of this hormone are high to start with then you don't need more!.

Clomid may or may not be successful. I know of both successes and failures whilst on it. If clomid was given you would need to be monitored closely whilst on it with blood tests and ultrasounds. It encourages the ovaries to work harder.

Any other questions just ask

Attila

Hi There Attila

Thanks for all your help.

Sorry did not reply earlier, but was away over the weekend.

Thanks again and will probably ask some more questions in the near future

Am around for about another week or so then am on my hols for three weeks.

Ohhh, where are you going?

Gold Coast, Australia.

Fantastic - have a great time. Wow would love to go there. Enjoy x